New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Social Media and Rule 69
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Social Media and Rule 69

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
L192444 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 30 Apr 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 468
Post Options Post Options   Quote L192444 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by sargesail



I saw some frustration towards an IJ last week because they are both jury and judge and higher court.

I think this can be really hard for competitors and they need to be able to ‘vent’. Gonna be more of that on social media in the future....


I think it’s poor that people would sound off against the organisers on social media. 
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 945
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by sargesail

 I also think some of the distinction on junior sailors is artificial and inappropriate- kids at an Opi Worlds are spending professional amounts of time on the water. 

Doesn't make them not kids though.

OA's have a right to try to make events 'family friendly'.

Think of the little children.
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 945
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by sargesail

   ‘suck my balls’ is part of the normal vernacular of 14 year old boys in many cultures. It uses no foul language. Given its everyday normality I find it hard to see it as abusive. It’s merely a colourful way of saying ‘I’m not spinning’.
Really?!

It's hardly language you would use to your teacher, wife, mum, co-worker, neighbour or umpire. It is wholly inappropriate language to use to a minor.

I find it incredible that anyone could claim it isn't a breach of good manners (69.1 b1).

In fact, worth noting that 69.1 b1 does not require bad manners, it just requires a breach of good manners.

Many would argue that not saying please and not holding the door open is a breach of good manners ;)


Yes I wouldn’t use it to a minor. But my point is this is minor to minor communication.

Good point.  Context is important.

I wouldn’t use it at all. My kids might. My daughter probably wouldn’t.....but having read this decision I know she’d enjoy imagining saying it to her brother if she was in a similar position to the NZL sailor when training.

Would she enjoy having it said to her?

I'm not really sure that enjoyment is a relevant consideration.

And that’s the point - I read an earlier thread on language in which an Irish poster noted that the F word is more a verbal fill in than a swear word in Ireland.

That's what I was driving at in my previous post

So here with ‘suck my balls’.

Here's the go.  In MY opinion this crosses a line.

On your second point - yes exactly. By your please and thank you, holding the door example as a breach of good manners you illustrate the potential for the rule 69 bar to be set ridiculously low.

That's why we have to two step process for rule 69:
  • First the protest committee must decide whether or not to hold a hearing;  and
  • only if they do, do they then give the notice to the person and hold the hearing.
This lets the protest committee dispose of trivial matters and allegations that are unlikely to be able to be proven to their comfortable satisfaction.
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 945
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 19 at 12:22am
Originally posted by sargesail

Brass, 
The perils of a hasty post. Indeed not a language issue. And I should have been clearer that my equivalency point was not aimed at yacht measurement cheating but at the Ben Ainslie incident. 
OK, but consider the outcomes, as I have no doubt the jury in the Ben Ainslie case did:  the one race penalty cost Ainslie the Championship.  In the 49ers GBR 5 was averaging score 10 for her races completed and not penalised:  nowhere near in contention.
Now clearly the allegations made were inappropriate and constitute misconduct....but I don’t see 2 days of DNE as proportionate. 
I agree it looks a bit heavy handed, but I'm not sure that it crosses the line between at the higher end of appropriately severe and inappropriately disproportionate.
I saw some frustration towards an IJ last week because they are both jury and judge and higher court.
That's what you sign up for when you enter an International event.
International event = Elite level of competition = Elite understanding of norms and processes = elite levels of self control.
I think this can be really hard for competitors and they need to be able to ‘vent’.
I absolutely disagree with this proposition.
I can abide a competitor using foul language expletives in the heat of the moment (OK, in ordinary conversation), but in writing, or, indeed, deliberate speech, where the message conveyed goes beyond mere expletives, it's different.
I see no reason why the incivility of 8Chan or Sailing Anarchy should be carried over into sailing.
Gonna be more of that on social media in the future.... 
Then I'm not too unhappy about a bit more rule 69 penalising.



Edited by Brass - 09 Aug 19 at 2:39am
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1328
Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 19 at 6:31am

I saw some frustration towards an IJ last week because they are both jury and judge and higher court.

That's what you sign up for when you enter an international event. International event = Elite level of competition = Elite understanding of norms and processes = elite levels of self control.

And perhaps suggests a need for elite levels of empathy?

I think this can be really hard for competitors and they need to be able to ‘vent’. Iabsolutely disagree with. I can abide a competitor using foul language expletives in the heat of the moment (OK, in ordinary conversation), but in writing, or, indeed, deliberate speech, where the message conveyed goes beyond mere expletives, it's different.

So I’m with you in that I’d like that to be the way it is. But I also recognise that for habituated young social media users there is no filtering action as they enter text. It is as the spoken word is to you and I.

So the issue needs some empathy.

I see no reason why the incivility of 8Chan or Sailing Anarchy should be carried over into sailing. Then I'm not too unhappy about a bit more rule 69 penalising.

Seems to me that much of SAs incivility is grumpy old men not unconstrained yoof - let’s not conflate the two.
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1328
Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 19 at 6:48am
I wouldn’t use it at all. My kids might. My daughter probably wouldn’t.....but having read this decision I know she’d enjoy imagining saying it to her brother if she was in a similar position to the NZL sailor when training.

Would she enjoy having it said to her?

The question is - would she consider it foul, abusive or a breach of good manners....i’ll ask?

]I'm not really sure that enjoyment is a relevant consideration.

Precisely - in terms of enjoying I was referring to thinking it with a little smile when he upsets her.

And that’s the point - I read an earlier thread on language in which an Irish poster noted that the F word is more a verbal fill in than a swear word in Ireland.

So here with ‘suck my balls’.

Here's the go.  In MY opinion this crosses a line.

So here’s my question: if a competitor uses a gesture or expression that is not abusive or a breach of good manners s in his culture but is in another (a simple thumbs up is an example) and a report is made to the PC/IJ how shouls it be dealt with? Presumably the gesturer would need to have known for it to be an infringement. Or merely should have known?

Back to youth culture....I think this has some relevance to the case in question.
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1328
Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 19 at 6:50am
Re spoken versus written comms....I’ve 3 times touched the dictation button while writing these posts....there isn’t even a mechanical filter!
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1328
Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 19 at 6:54am
Originally posted by L192444


Originally posted by sargesail


I saw some frustration towards an IJ last week because they are both jury and judge and higher court.

I think this can be really hard for competitors and they need to be able to ‘vent’. Gonna be more of that on social media in the future....


I think it’s poor that people would sound off against the organisers on social media. 


I wasn’t referring to the weather stuff actually. Let’s just say that the committee boats wind instruments need some recalibration!
Back to Top
Fatboi View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 09 Aug 16
Location: Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 166
Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 19 at 8:25am
Originally posted by L192444

Rule 69 defines misconduct as acts of bad manors and poor sportsmanship.

How does this translate to social media?

Would it be considered bad manners to question the judgement of the PRO or Jury during a championship?



I would say so, especially if you have over 30,000 followers on the page! Criticizing the PRO, race instruments is pretty poor show. 

Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 945
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 19 at 8:56am
Sargesail,

Is that really the way we want the game to go?

Basketball trash-talking, Cricket sledging, Football, coaches and star players ripping into referees in the media every time they lose a match?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy