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Social Media and Rule 69 |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
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Topic: Social Media and Rule 69 Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 7:44am |
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Just checked this. Rule 69.2j does NOT require report to MNA for a penalty of DNE or less.
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 8:22am | ||
Must have changed in the last revision. I hadn't spotted that. Used to be anything above a warning. |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 8:39am | ||
Yes. Matches up with dropping the 'gross. Penalty for rule 2 also backed off to DSQ or DNE. |
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 9:36am | ||
Hmmm. So I didn’t and probably still don’t see that usage as homophobic. But I can see that it’s possible to construct that case. And thus to deem it abusive. Now if the lowering of the standard was in part about dealing with that sort of thing at junior regattas then all the more reason to use Rule 69 not Rule 2. And since there was already a Rule 2 DNE there was no need for more and no need for a report to the MNA ... But I’d then go back to my original question about issues with lowering the bar. I also think some of the distinction on junior sailors is artificial and inappropriate- kids at an Opi Worlds are spending professional amounts of time on the water. |
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 9:38am | ||
https://sailinganarchy.com/2019/04/06/sham-69-3/
Some commentary (which I had not read until today) on the 49er decision with links. The language used was stronger than I remembered- personally I think the SA commentary about relative levels of punishment and misconduct versus gross measurement cheating nail it. |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 10:55am | ||
Really?! It's hardly language you would use to your teacher, wife, mum, co-worker, neighbour or umpire. It is wholly inappropriate language to use to a minor. I find it incredible that anyone could claim it isn't a breach of good manners (69.1 b1). In fact, worth noting that 69.1 b1 does not require bad manners, it just requires a breach of good manners. Many would argue that not saying please and not holding the door open is a breach of good manners ;) |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 11:13am | ||
The linked hearing was not about bad language. It was about:
All of which the international jury must have been comfortably satisfied were published. We (or at least I) don't know anything about the Hainan Regatta. Well, I do now. Some self-styled sailing journalist, who was not competing in one of the races reported (https://sailinganarchy.com/2019/04/01/dangerous-one/)
So presumably no boat protested. If the report ever came to the attention of the jury, we have no idea whether they considered it as a possible rule 69 breach or merely as an allegation by a person with no standing to protest, of a breach of Class Rules. Before we start speculating about inconsistencies in jury penalties we have to be looking at actual rule 69 hearings.
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 11:28am | ||
Well, presumably it would count as "information received from any source" so the PC would be entitled to hold a RRS69 hearing. However I'm not sure that a photo of a pipecot sitting in a store room would be regarded as utterly convincing evidence.
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 4:45pm | ||
Yes I wouldn’t use it to a minor. But my point is this is minor to minor communication. I wouldn’t use it at all. My kids might. My daughter probably wouldn’t.....but having read this decision I know she’d enjoy imagining saying it to her brother if she was in a similar position to the NZL sailor when training. And that’s the point - I read an earlier thread on language in which an Irish poster noted that the F word is more a verbal fill in than a swear word in Ireland. So here with ‘suck my balls’. On your second point - yes exactly. By your please and thank you, holding the door example as a breach of good manners you illustrate the potential for the rule 69 bar to be set ridiculously low. |
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 08 Aug 19 at 5:05pm | ||
Brass,
The perils of a hasty post. Indeed not a language issue. And I should have been clearer that my equivalency point was not aimed at yacht measurement cheating but at the Ben Ainslie incident. Now clearly the allegations made were inappropriate and constitute misconduct....but I don’t see 2 days of DNE as proportionate. I saw some frustration towards an IJ last week because they are both jury and judge and higher court. I think this can be really hard for competitors and they need to be able to ‘vent’. Gonna be more of that on social media in the future.... Edited by sargesail - 08 Aug 19 at 5:05pm |
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