Sail trim angle

Hi All,

When the sailing in winds I'm guessing 12 Knots+ I often find I'm leaning hard on the tiller to keep on course.
This is hard work on my arm and also make the dinghy feel rather unstable!!

I've been watching Steve Cockerill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVsx5i6bG98

If I can set the sail as a 'happy sail'  (and hike when nessesary- {I love hiking}) will I be able to lessen my reliance on the tiller ?

I suspect I also need to learn more about detecting wind direction as I often struggle on parts of our reservevoir where the wind direction gets a bit 'shifty' 

Edited by Jumps - 21 Jul 19 at 12:46am

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Jumps Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 27 Jun 19 Location: Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jumps Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Sail trim angle Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 12:42am
	Hi All, When the sailing in winds I'm guessing 12 Knots+ I often find I'm leaning hard on the tiller to keep on course. This is hard work on my arm and also make the dinghy feel rather unstable!! I've been watching Steve Cockerill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVsx5i6bG98 If I can set the sail as a 'happy sail' (and hike when nessesary- {I love hiking}) will I be able to lessen my reliance on the tiller ? I suspect I also need to learn more about detecting wind direction as I often struggle on parts of our reservevoir where the wind direction gets a bit 'shifty' Edited by Jumps - 21 Jul 19 at 12:46am

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3399	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 9:32am
	This is called weather helm, need to know what boat you sail ? They all have various ways to counteract this.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 9:37am
	Basically, yes. The more flat the boat, the less weight there is on the rudder. Hiking, spilling wind or reefing can all achieve this, depending upon what your sailing aims are.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

davidyacht Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345	Post Options Post Reply Quote davidyacht Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 11:33am
	Depending upon the boat, if it has a rotating centerboard, rake it back a bit, until the helm feels balanced (lighter). Unjust the kicker and more Cunningham and shelf out the mainsail foot. Sail flat, but you don’t need to grunt it ... spill wind by easing sheets and you will accelerate rather than broach up into the wind.
	Happily living in the past

Brass Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1144	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brass Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 12:12pm
	Hang on, if we're having to lean on the tiller, that's lee helm, not weather helm. Usual causes are board not all the way down and/or jib on and not enough main.

davidyacht Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345	Post Options Post Reply Quote davidyacht Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 1:06pm
	Fair comment ... would be good to know the type of dinghy
	Happily living in the past

Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 4:11pm
	Need to understand if “leaning” on the tiller is you having to push it or pull it. If you are having to push it that is quite uncommon, especially if it is a high load, and symptomatic of a badly set up boat. Is it the right rig for the boat? Is the mast leaning a long way forward? Is the centreboard down? It is more common to have to pull hard on the tiller to stay on course and this is usually the result of too much heel to leeward (I.e. not keeping the boat flat enough, hike harder or ease the sails -especially the main), or the rudder not being fully down. If it the rudder is up only a little (just a few degrees off vertical) it can begin to feel quite heavy. If you have a centreboard rather than a daggerboard raising it slightly can help reduce tiller pull too.

Jumps Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 27 Jun 19 Location: Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jumps Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 7:43pm
	Hi all, Sorry, mostly learning in a Laser, (Club boats - so not always at peak maintenance levels) some of the rudder downhauls are a bit slippy and the rudders rides up - Thanks will keep a closer check on this ! I feel pretty safe with the 4.7 sail in even up to 20 knots but much prefer the Radial (right for my weight and more fun) - I just need to up my skill a bit to cope with it - so trying to work out what to concentrate on improving next I'd say its mostly weather helm, When I say leaning on the rudder I'm not 100% if I'm pushing or pulling (I can't remember - too busy trying not to swim ) I do know I'm using too much and causing a lot of drag and feel like I'm fighting - hence my question, maybe I'm sheeting in too much and could I be pointing better being more aware of sail angle.

Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 7:59pm
	Ah, if it’s a Laser you’ll be pulling (weather helm) almost certainly as a result of not being flat enough, not having controls pulled on tight enough and/or the rudder not being fully down. There are some very comprehensive ‘sail by numbers’ books for the Laser specifically, which are a useful way of learning how to use the controls etc on all points and in all winds. Tim Davison is the author of one I think, but there are others. Well worth the money.

SoggyBadger Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 26 Oct 10 Location: The Wild Wood Online Status: Offline Posts: 552	Post Options Post Reply Quote SoggyBadger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 8:41pm
	You don't say how much you weigh but I suspect most of your problem is down to not having enough kicker on when the wind picks up. The "ideal" is to have the mainsheet traveller/horse/thingy set as tight as possible whilst still allowing allowing the mainsheet block to pass over the tiller and have the aft end of the boom over the edge of the transom. You use the kicker to flatten the sail just enough so that you can keep the boat flat by hiking.
	Best wishes from deep in the woods SB