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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Leeward Mark Rounding
    Posted: 17 Jul 19 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by Sapspec8650

Thanks indeed your contributions. I am now reassured that a new rule hasn't sneaked up on me.
However - just to confirm -- My hail of 'clear ahead -- no room' at the zone requires the other boat to give me mark room and that rule outranks port/starboard .. windward/leeward in the zone?

When you were 5 boat lengths from the mark, were the boats overlapped?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sapspec8650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 19 at 8:36pm
OK -- I made to gybe when he called 'Windward boat' I figured that if I completed my gybe he would t-bone me at the mark - so I hardened up--spilled - then bore away hard to gybe and cross his transom as he rounded -- simples! Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 19 at 7:36pm
There's no need for a hail (although it can help clarify things). If you are clear ahead at the zone you are entitled to mark room no matter what.

The way the rules are worded is that the actions of a ROW boat are *limited* by part B and part C rules.

I sill don't really understand, though, how you could be clear ahead at the zone, and yet the boat behind suddenly gets into a position where you can gybe behind him.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sapspec8650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 19 at 5:50pm
Thanks indeed your contributions. I am now reassured that a new rule hasn't sneaked up on me.
However - just to confirm -- My hail of 'clear ahead -- no room' at the zone requires the other boat to give me mark room and that rule outranks port/starboard .. windward/leeward in the zone?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 19 at 9:12am
Assuming the OP was in the right, exoneration is small compensation for being rammed amidships.......

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 17 Jul 19 at 9:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 19 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by jeffers

If you were clear ahead when the closest boat reached the zone then the boat clear astern shall give Mark Room. Rule 18.2b, c and the definition of Mark Room cover this.

18.2b  If boats are overlapped when the first of them reaches the zone, the outside boat at that moment shall thereafter give the inside boat mark-room. If a boat is clear ahead when she reaches the zone, the boat clear astern at that moment shall thereafter give her mark-room.

18.2c When a boat is required to give mark-room by rule 18.2(b), 
(1) she shall continue to do so even if later an overlap is broken or a new overlap begins; 
(2) if she becomes overlapped inside the boat entitled to mark-room, she shall also give that boat room to sail her proper course while they remain overlapped.

MARK-ROOM, Room for a boat to leave a mark on the required side. Also, (a) room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, and (b) room to round the mark as necessary to sail the course. However, mark-room for a boat does not include room to tack unless she is overlapped inside and to windward of the boat required to give mark-room and she would be fetching the mark after her tack.


The W/L rule does still apply but the Leewards boats actions are restricted by the requirement for them to give you Mark Room.

11 ON THE SAME TACK, OVERLAPPED When boats are on the same tack and overlapped, a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat.

Need to emphasise the exoneration mechanism here

21 EXONERATION
When a boat is sailing within the room or mark-room to which she is entitled, she shall be exonerated if, in an incident with a boat required to give her that room or mark-room,
(a) she breaks a rule of Section A, rule 15 or rule 16, or
(b) she is compelled to break rule 31.

However if there was doubt about the overlap or lack of it then be aware of 18.2e:

18.2e  If there is reasonable doubt that a boat obtained or broke an overlap in time, it shall be presumed that she did not.

So, Sapspec8650

When you were five boatlengths from the mark were the boats overlapped?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 19 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Sounds like a little knowledge of the rules being a 'dangerous thing' in the case of your opponent. I suspect he has recently learned the W/L and P/S still apply in the zone but not that they don't override mark room.......

Perhaps he is working his way through the rule book in order, and has yet to encounter rule 18
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 19 at 5:51pm
Sounds like a little knowledge of the rules being a 'dangerous thing' in the case of your opponent. I suspect he has recently learned the W/L and P/S still apply in the zone but not that they don't override mark room.......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 19 at 12:39pm
If you were clear ahead when the closest boat reached the zone then the boat clear astern shall give Mark Room. Rule 18.2b, c and the definition of Mark Room cover this.

18.2b  If boats are overlapped when the first of them reaches the zone, the outside boat at that moment shall thereafter give the inside boat mark-room. If a boat is clear ahead when she reaches the zone, the boat clear astern at that moment shall thereafter give her mark-room.

18.2c When a boat is required to give mark-room by rule 18.2(b), 
(1) she shall continue to do so even if later an overlap is broken or a new overlap begins; 
(2) if she becomes overlapped inside the boat entitled to mark-room, she shall also give that boat room to sail her proper course while they remain overlapped.

MARK-ROOM, Room for a boat to leave a mark on the required side. Also, (a) room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, and (b) room to round the mark as necessary to sail the course. However, mark-room for a boat does not include room to tack unless she is overlapped inside and to windward of the boat required to give mark-room and she would be fetching the mark after her tack.


The W/L rule does still apply but the Leewards boats actions are restricted by the requirement for them to give you Mark Room.

11 ON THE SAME TACK, OVERLAPPED When boats are on the same tack and overlapped, a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat.

However if there was doubt about the overlap or lack of it then be aware of 18.2e:

18.2e  If there is reasonable doubt that a boat obtained or broke an overlap in time, it shall be presumed that she did not.


Edited by jeffers - 16 Jul 19 at 12:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 19 at 12:09pm
Brass, 18.4 doesn't apply because the boats are not overlapped. The OP says that he was clear ahead.
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