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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 1:06pm
Yes. If S has to alter course to avoid contact P broke rule 13.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by rich96

If you are the port tacker sailing upwind (remote from any marks etc) and tack directly infront of a starboard tacker, also sailing upwind, and, whilst you have completed your tack, you are not up to speed - where is the starboard tacker supposed to go ?

Have you fouled him ?
As soon as P completes their tack clear ahead then S must now keep clear. (Rule 12)
If S has to take action to avoid P before the tack is complete then P has broken a rule. (Rule 13)
Furthermore, even once they have become the right of way boat P must initially allow S room to keep clear. (Rule 15)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by rich96

If you are the port tacker sailing upwind (remote from any marks etc) and tack directly in front of a starboard tacker, also sailing upwind, and, whilst you have completed your tack, you are not up to speed - where is the starboard tacker supposed to go ? 

Have you fouled him ? 

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Yes. If S has to alter course to avoid contact P broke rule 13.

See the bolded bit.  I'll interpret that into 21st century rules-speak as 'you have reached your close hauled course'.

Boats are now on same tack, with the other boat clear astern.

Rule 12 requires the boat clear astern to keep clear.

To answer the OP question 'where is the starboard tacker supposed to go ? '

Either to port or to starboard so as to keep clear.

If there is insufficient space for her to do so in a seamanlike way, then the tacking boat has broken rule 15, did not initially give room to keep clear.

Otherwise, she keeps clear and no rule broken.


Edited by Brass - 05 Jun 19 at 2:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 1:49pm
Thanks Brass  Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 2:08pm
OFFS got there before me <g>

Not like you to miss a rule 15 <g>


Edited by Brass - 05 Jun 19 at 2:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Brass

OFFS got there before me <g>

...which doesn't happen very often! ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 3:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 9:42pm
What do you think of this team racing rule?

"Rule 16.2 is changed to:
In addition, on a beat to windward when a port-tack boat is keeping clear by sailing to pass to leeward of a starboard-tack boat, the starboard-tack boat shall not bear away if as a result the port-tack boat must change course immediately to continue keeping clear."

Seems in this case the port boat only has to get their bow pointing clear to leeward, rather than astern. Astern becomes very difficult when the starboard dials down and the boats are then reaching toward each other. 

Thoughts?




Edited by mozzy - 05 Jun 19 at 9:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by mozzy

What do you think of this team racing rule?

"Rule 16.2 is changed to:
In addition, on a beat to windward when a port-tack boat is keeping clear by sailing to pass to leeward of a starboard-tack boat, the starboard-tack boat shall not bear away if as a result the port-tack boat must change course immediately to continue keeping clear."

Seems in this case the port boat only has to get their bow pointing clear to leeward, rather than astern. Astern becomes very difficult when the starboard dials down and the boats are then reaching toward each other. 

Thoughts?


I actually wonder whether the change from "astern" to "leeward" is intentional?
My logic here is that "sailing to pass" seems to lean in the favour of the port tack boat, in that you don't specifically have to be overlapped or even pointing behind the other boat's stern to be "sailing to pass astern". It could be argued that the simple act of beginning to bear away satisfies the test that you are now "sailing [with the clear intent] to pass astern", so is the distinction between "leeward" and "astern" actually relevant?

I think the real difference here is the changing of the wording from "after the starting signal" to "on a beat to windward". So the significant change is to permit dial-ups on downwind legs in TR, in situations where 16.2 might otherwise prevent them.

Also worth noting that in neither discipline does 16.2 apply until after the starting gun, so it would appear that aggressive dial downs are always fair game before the starting signal.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 19 at 8:24am
I think leeward is intentional. Once the starboard boat has put it's bow down, then the port boat first has to cross in front before it can pass astern. 

That also seems to be what most people thought about Giles' manoeuvre. The hungarian boat was never really sailing astern, and if he was intending to sail astern he had to pass in front of Giles before doing so. 
However, with the above rule there are a few seconds where he is sailing to leeward of Giles. And Giles keeps bearing off, forcing the Hungarian boat to immediately change course further. 

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