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Tacking on a mark, room to keep clear?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 19 at 7:25pm
That's what I don't really get, do you really take any more room to tack around a mark than gybe, or just head up from DDW to close hauled? I imagine the stern swinging out just as much as in any scenario. So it seems weird that the rule say you don't have room for it. 

It might make more sense if written for a boat that can't go directly to the mark within the 3 boat lengths and instead needs extra space to tack toward it. And so they can only have that space to tack toward it if overlapped inside.  

Just seems weird to not be 'allowed room to tack' when you don't actually need any over the mark room you would require if not tacking. It's not like room for a tack at an obstruction where you need to effectively turn off rule 13 and preemptively warn the other boats around. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 19 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by mozzy

  It seems odd that Blues mark room includes a tack when overlapped inside, but not when clear ahead. Why is that?


I Presume it is because if Y was so close to leeward of B that B couldn't tack without the transom stepping out and hitting Y then both boats would be locked until Y bore away to allow B to tack anyway 

Wild guess
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 19 at 5:39pm
Either of the above is probably OK. The way I was told to do this was to go head to wind until the other boat has gone astern then go through to complete the tack (so like your second option but doing it at the mark). It would depend on tactical considerations for the next leg as to what the best thing to do would be. 

For example it may have been better tactically to let Yellow tack inside and you tack on top to keep a clear lane and yourself in the best tactical position to keep them behind you (depending on which way the next mark was to be rounded).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 19 at 4:30pm
But... Blue can go up to head to wind without tacking. Then if the collision happens before head to wind then I guess it's yellow's foul?

So Blue should sail past the mark and wait for Yellow to tack for fear of switching off rule 18 and infringing Yellow? It seems odd that Blues mark room includes a tack when overlapped inside, but not when clear ahead. Why is that?

Could Blue slow down, force yellow outside and overlapped and then she has room to tack included in her mark room?

Or Blue slows down and yellow gets an inside overlap they are not entitled to, blue sails close to mark, but not tacking, forcing yellow to tack out? 




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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 19 at 4:13pm
18.2b:

If boats are overlapped when the first of them reaches the zone, the outside boat at that moment shall thereafter give the inside boat mark-room. If a boat is clear ahead when she reaches the zone, the boat clear astern at that moment shall thereafter give her mark-room.

 Mark-Room Room for a boat to leave a mark on the required side. Also, 

(a) room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, and 
(b) room to round the mark as necessary to sail the course. 

However, mark-room for a boat does not include room to tack unless she is overlapped inside and to windward of the boat required to give mark-room and she would be fetching the mark after her tack.

Pretty clear to me, Blue cannot tack unless she is going to be clear of Yellow at all times. Yellow is only required to give Blue Mark Room.


Edited by jeffers - 20 May 19 at 4:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 19 at 4:03pm
Blue (B) clear ahead of Yellow (Y) and slightly to leeward at 3 boats, both boat over the port layline on port. Proper course for both boats is to tack on the mark. 

18 applies before B tacks and Y is clear astern so must give B mark room. Rule 21 exonerates B whilst sailing in her mark room for Section A plus rules 15 and 16.  But, at which point is B tacking and therefore not sailing within her mark room? And at which point are they on port and starboard and so 18 no longer applies?  

Ignoring the mark the boats are going fast enough that Blue can't complete their tack and give yellow room to keep clear, so would either break 13 or 15. But as they are approaching the mark, and B was clear ahead Y should be giving blue mark room right up until position 3 (or maybe after when the tack is complete?)? 

The situation could be on a tight reach to mark your course requires you to tack around or two boat over-standing a port layline.

 




Edited by mozzy - 24 May 19 at 10:58am
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