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Henmch
Newbie Joined: 26 Dec 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Topic: Start of race Posted: 16 May 19 at 1:56pm |
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Two dinghies are approaching the committee boat end of a starting line in a force 2. A is the windward boat and is about 3/4 boat length to windward of B who has an overlap. They are on Parallel courses. A is in an unfavourable position in close proximity to the committee boat. B ( the leeward boat) doesn’t indicate that they are going to luff until they are in a position where A cannot respond due to their closeness to the committee boat.
A is obviously not entitled to mark room but is unable to “bail out” of the start by the time B starts to luff. What should A’s response be? |
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ClubRacer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 16 May 19 at 6:35pm | ||
I read something similar in a Y&Y article just the other day from Mark Rushall about a similar incident. I'l see if I can find it
The big tell tale sign if A is trying to keep clear is rudder position. If the rudder is trying to bear the boat off then they aren't doing enough to keep clear. If the rudder is on the centre line but they are basically touching the CV A is safe as it can not do anything more. If A's rudder is trying to head up then they are doing all they can to keep clear. Key words as always are Time and Opportunity
Edited by ClubRacer - 16 May 19 at 6:39pm |
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ClubRacer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 16 May 19 at 6:42pm | ||
Edited by ClubRacer - 16 May 19 at 6:45pm |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 19 at 7:29am | ||
NO THEY ARE NOT. These words have not been in the rules for more than 20 years. All the words you need are in the definition of Room:
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GML
Groupie Joined: 24 Jul 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 94 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 19 at 8:43am | ||
To answer the original question: A's response should be to try to keep clear of B (since she is windward boat) and to try to avoid contact with the committee boat (since it is a mark). If she can do both those things then no issue. If she cannot then she should protest B.
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ClubRacer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 19 at 9:26am | ||
Can you explain how time and opportunity isn’t a sufficient way to summarise that definition? |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 19 at 9:30am | ||
Phrases that are no longer in the rules were surely removed for good reason, as the aim is always to clarify and simplify (often of course contradictory aims). So if one goes back to language that has been removed its liable to result in less clarity and more confusion.
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Guests
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 19 at 10:29am | ||
Shouldn't it be B protesting A, if A doesn't keep clear? B comes from astern so has to give A, initially room to keep clear (i.e space for her transom to swing around as she heads up). The OP says the leeward boat got her overlaps 3/4 of a boat length to leeward, which I'd say was plenty of room. Past that initial moment A should really maintain a gap to windward so that if B luff aggressively (i.e. go head to wind) then they are out of reach.
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 19 at 2:24pm | ||
OP scenario was that B changes course to windward (luffs) A into the committee vessel. I agree that this doesn't look like a rule 15 situation, but it certainly is a rule 16. If a does her best to keep clear of B, but is unable to do so [without touching the committee vessel], then she is being denied room to keep clear, and sailing within the room to which she is entitled and exonerated if she fails to keep clear (rule 21). That would be A's protest. B could certainly protest if she thought that A could have kept clear.
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 19 at 2:32pm | ||
Also, the focus of the definition of Room is on space not on time. While I wasn't much involved in rules in 1995, I think that removal of references to 'opportunity' was intended to remove any idea that hailing was a required component of an entitlement to room.
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