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Laser vs RS Aero for 2024

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Poll Question: Which Boat?
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Oli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 11:32am
Originally posted by CT249

Originally posted by Oli

how many run the marathon in sandals/ barefoot?

why develop anything at all? lets all race boats akin to the golden hinde...

like i said nothing wrong with a laser but for example why not look at it from an eco front, we shouldn't be using new built boats built to outdated methods, sailing has sold itself, in part, as an eco sport, and from what i see it seriously misses that remit.

time to evolve.

 
From an eco point of view it's lunacy to make the existing Olympic programme Lasers get replaced by Aeros. How much eco damage is done if every boat from an existing fleet (and we NEED fleets, not just one or two boats for each country) is put aside and replaced by new boats?


guess it would need to be measured at whats the best outcome, is making thousands of new lasre each year using less eco methods better than making a modern boat that has a more eco friendly construction? in either case the loss of the "existing fleet" is the same, new builds replace the old.
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Cirrus

The arguments 'pro-Laser' today are very similar to the sort of things being used to defend/promote pre-existing 'older' classes when the Laser was 'new' and before it was formally introduced to the Olympics.

So nothing really changes ... especially resistance of this very human sort to change.   We are mostly conservative beings I guess... There was little wrong with the FD .. or the Soling  ... or the Firefly etc if we had always followed the same lines of argument ...  (add your own favorite (now) ex-Olympic class name ).   

'Lobbying' by the established can prevail though  .... in the absence of  sports leadership.


Really? Can you point me to many people who said similar things, such as "the Soling is the most popular yacht in the world" or "the FD is the world's most popular dinghy"?

Where in the world did anyone ever say "the emerging sailing nations have spent years building up FD fleets because they are cheap and they cannot afford to switch to the Laser"?

Similarly, no one ever claimed that the Firefly was never the world's most popular and widespread boat. Surely if you are going to make claims like that you are going to have to provide some evidence.

By the way, the classes you seem to espouse are pretty far on the conservative side of sailing. The Icon was a nice boat, but largely an upgrade on a 35 year old design. The Blaze seems fun, but it's no really any different in concept to a boat could have turned up to the 1960s trials that chose the Contender. Arguably your own choices seem to be those of someone who is quite resistant to major change.




Edited by CT249 - 16 May 19 at 12:18pm
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by Oli

Originally posted by CT249

Originally posted by Oli

how many run the marathon in sandals/ barefoot?

why develop anything at all? lets all race boats akin to the golden hinde...

like i said nothing wrong with a laser but for example why not look at it from an eco front, we shouldn't be using new built boats built to outdated methods, sailing has sold itself, in part, as an eco sport, and from what i see it seriously misses that remit.

time to evolve.

 
From an eco point of view it's lunacy to make the existing Olympic programme Lasers get replaced by Aeros. How much eco damage is done if every boat from an existing fleet (and we NEED fleets, not just one or two boats for each country) is put aside and replaced by new boats?


guess it would need to be measured at whats the best outcome, is making thousands of new lasre each year using less eco methods better than making a modern boat that has a more eco friendly construction? in either case the loss of the "existing fleet" is the same, new builds replace the old.

But how many new builds will be built to replace the old?  My Laser fleet, for example, has lots of boats about 20 years old. The average age of a Master's nationals winning boat in Oz seems to be 12 years. 

I've been looking at Singapore as an example of an emerging sailing nation that has stated that growing fleets, rather than individuals, is vital. The top Laser in their biggest regatta was 12 years old and the second local boat was 10 years old, although most boats were newer.

So there are lots of winning boats that are about 12 years old. In that time, some 27,000 boats have been built. So the Laser class arguably has a reservoir of at least that many fully competitive boats that upgrading sailors can buy, that champions can win on, and that provide the competitive fleets that make Laser sailing so popular. 

For the Aero to get to that stage they'll have to build a similar number of boats - and in a hurry. Is that going to be more eco-sensitive than sticking with Lasers? Is there anything actually stopping Lasers from moving to more renewable resources while maintaining that stock of older boats?

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A2Z View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote A2Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 2:52pm
Interesting to see in the report that only one of the women evaluators felt they were big enough to sail the Aero 7. And only half the men felt they were big enough for the Aero 9.
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 3:39pm
By the way, the classes you seem to espouse are pretty far on the conservative side of sailing.....

You are missing the point totally here .. I am not proposing ANY future classes myself. None of the officially  assessed craft are at the cuttng edge of things either, whoever sugegsted that ?  The point is that the Laser came in because people of the day were prepared to really consider the 'new' and alternatives.... and move on from the conservative arguments of that time and  day. 

.....Today the same arguments are being used to 'defend' the same boat - the Laser  - Do you not see any irony whatsever ??   I've owned six of them over the years - but frankly that was then - this is now.  Cheer up chicken - you are still very likely to see the Laser retained in part  or in whole and for another cycle yet imo.


Edited by Cirrus - 16 May 19 at 3:40pm
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Interesting to see in the report that only one of the women evaluators felt they were big enough to sail the Aero 7. And only half the men felt they were big enough for the Aero 9.


Yes - these two boats are not for usual sized ladies and prob not usual sized men
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 4:40pm
So the 96 games was the first one for the Laser, I believe. So the class was 25 at that point. So nothing new. What was new was the idea that a simple, popular class, sailed the world over, would be used.

I can't see how adding another 25 years has changed anything. The Laser is still the only boat to meet those criteria. It made it there without Olympic help. Maybe the Aero in time will get, if not the same, at least sufficient coverage to be seen in the same light.

Of course, the criteria might change, and most current Olympic classes have been invented for the games, from Finn to Nacra 17. Is it just Laser and 470 that had life before the games? The Aero would at least have grass roots sailing in some parts of the world.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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GarethT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by andymck

Bring back the firefly
And add 2 boat team racing to allow tv.
The Wilson was epic this year.


As I've said before, this, with one boat sailed by 2 women, and the other by a Finn sized bloke.

Ticks lots of boxes.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Is it just Laser and 470 that had life before the games?

49er did (just).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 19 at 10:53pm
Who effing cares. Whatever boat is chosen, the guys who do the Olympic stuff will sail em and bin em. They just want to sit on something and get a medal. It really doesn't make an effing ounce of difference to what most of us do each Sunday.
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