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jeffers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Jul 19 at 12:38pm
I would say the defence would be that the blue on starboard was worried that red on port (the keep clear boat) was failing to keep clear so they took avoiding action (which is to tack, tiller towards trouble).

If no course change from blue there would have been contact at position 3 in the diagram.

I don't think mark room comes in to this argument as 18.1 a and b specifically state that rule 18 (Mark Room) does not apply to boat on opposite tacks so the section A rules take precedence until the are boats on the same tack. Others with a more in depth knowledge might say otherwise. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 19 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by jeffers


I don't think mark room comes in to this argument as 18.1 a and b specifically state that rule 18 (Mark Room) does not apply to boat on opposite tacks so the section A rules take precedence until the are boats on the same tack. Others with a more in depth knowledge might say otherwise. 
I think that is the crux of what the fellow in the video is saying. The boats are on opposite tacks until blue crosses head to wind. So from the moment they go from head to wind to close hauled they are on the same tack, so rule 18 applies in which case they are exonerated from rule 13... or are they 'tacking' for which there is no definition and for which mark room is not entitled. 

And if they are on the same tack,  are they overlapped?
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 19 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by mozzy

Originally posted by jeffers


I don't think mark room comes in to this argument as 18.1 a and b specifically state that rule 18 (Mark Room) does not apply to boat on opposite tacks so the section A rules take precedence until the are boats on the same tack. Others with a more in depth knowledge might say otherwise. 
I think that is the crux of what the fellow in the video is saying. The boats are on opposite tacks until blue crosses head to wind. So from the moment they go from head to wind to close hauled they are on the same tack, so rule 18 applies in which case they are exonerated from rule 13... or are they 'tacking' for which there is no definition and for which mark room is not entitled. 

And if they are on the same tack,  are they overlapped?

In position 4 yes but i am not sure they can be exonerated as just because they want to tack for the mark doesnt mean their obligations under rule 13 are null and void. I am sure Brass will have an opinion on this but I think it is wrong as in position 4 they are not yet on a close hauled course (but this might be immaterial if rule 18 has switched on as soon as they pass head to wind).

The the question is really when does rule 18 start to apply in this situation? If as soon as they are through head to wind then yes rule 13 is irrelevant as they are then entitled to Mark Room. If it doesnt apply until they are (at least) on a close hauled course then rule 13 would still apply.
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Why would starboard not force port to tack off and then tack herself?
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 2:08am

I think this has previously been discussed at some length.


I don't agree with the video that this is a problem.

See Elvstrom's comments about the benefits of starboard rounding windward marks.

S approaches the mark with control of any port trackers in the parade.

If she doesn't want to tack inside, she can stand on on starboard as Rupert says and watch the pheasants scatter.

Edited by Brass - 21 Jul 19 at 7:33am
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 2:09am
Originally posted by Rupert

Why would starboard not force port to tack off and then tack herself?

Obvious example would be a boat following close behind P, who would get an inside overlapped berth at the mark if S held on above the layline to put P about.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 7:11am
Originally posted by Brass


Originally posted by Rupert

Why would starboard not force port to tack off and then tack herself?

Obvious example would be a boat following close behind P, who would get an inside overlapped berth at the mark if S held on above the layline to put P about.


True, but in this case, the tacking boat would really be threading a fine needle if there was a boat on starboard that close behind, too.
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 19 at 7:26am
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by Brass


Originally posted by Rupert

Why would starboard not force port to tack off and then tack herself?

Obvious example would be a boat following close behind P, who would get an inside overlapped berth at the mark if S held on above the layline to put P about.


True, but in this case, the tacking boat would really be threading a fine needle if there was a boat on starboard that close behind, too.


Agreed.

S has to be overlapped inside to be protected be 18.2a and 21 until she reaches her close hauled course: clear ahead and still tacking,and she's gorn.

Edited by Brass - 21 Jul 19 at 12:13pm
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