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ILCA drop LPE as a builder

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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 19 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by JimC

They turned me into a frog...
This jimc  Smile
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 1:26am
Originally posted by iGRF

 
I also knew the Olympic One design wasn't going to make it going forward and so the Mistral Prodigy was offered to the class for commercial reasons obviously, it had a better rig than the One Design, was more easy to sail, could be offered to first timers to 'try' with a smaller rig. It could still be used in low winds yet performed like the Formula type boards that the world was asking for at that period and so gave windsurfing the Hybrid and regrettably Pryde the same idea, unfortunately I wasn't around to 'sell' the idea to the sailors or warn them that they'd end up sailing something like it anyway. At the trials the One design was still way faster at all points of sailing than any of the other offerings but that wasn't the criterior that was required, what was required was the Olympic package being more 'modern' and representing what windsurfers were using.

As to the Contender if you'd remove the corks from your hat, you'd see that if it appealed to me then it would at a stroke increase its appeal by a factor of double because all the folk that are precluded from using it light weights, ladies etc, but of course that wouldn't suit the incumbents and there at a stroke you have the issue of class v commercial supplier that wishes to broaden its market and why classes are a bloody nuisance to the point they drive builders out of business in their own self interest and by the sounds of it you included, so I count you among those 'foolish' enough not to consider the implications of their self serving. Just as I condemn the actions of the ILCA for exactly the same reason. You and they are indeed acting foolishly, that is beyond any doubt in my mind.

Your first paragraph admits that the Prodigy was slower than the IMCO, which meant that the Prodigy was useless for the IMCO sailors who raced in mixed fleets or who simply liked going fast. So what you were trying to do, it seems, was to make many IMCO class sailors throw away a board we liked and instead, move the class to a board designed to suit ISAF.  So you were actually trying to be restrictive - just what you complain about.

As far as the Contender goes, you just admitted that the changes you want won't suit the owners - and yet it is apparent you don't give a damn about them. I cannot get over the complete indifference to the effect your ideas would have on the boats they have spent their money, their work and their passion on. 

The major point that you continue to ignore is that your claims don't stack up against reality. The classes that have changed the most, as you want them to do, often do very poorly. The classes that allow most development are less popular than SMODs. The classes that stick to their original design often do very well. Reality shows that attacking those who have supported a class rarely succeeds.  The fact is that it is you who are wrong and ILCA who are right, and your abuse of them is the foolishness.






Edited by CT249 - 03 May 19 at 7:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 6:05am
Originally posted by A2Z


All new PSA/J built ILCAs will be ILCAs and could be, but probably will not be, Lasers.


They can be both as PSA/PSJ have the TM to use Laser for small sailing dinghies in their territory.

LP only have that right in Europe/America IIRC.
Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 10:48am
Originally posted by CT249






Originally posted by iGRF

 I also knew the Olympic One design wasn't going to make it going forward and so the Mistral Prodigy was offered to the class for commercial reasons obviously, it had a better rig than the One Design, was more easy to sail, could be offered to first timers to 'try' with a smaller rig. It could still be used in low winds yet performed like the Formula type boards that the world was asking for at that period and so gave windsurfing the Hybrid and regrettably Pryde the same idea, unfortunately I wasn't around to 'sell' the idea to the sailors or warn them that they'd end up sailing something like it anyway. At the trials the One design was still way faster at all points of sailing than any of the other offerings but that wasn't the criterior that was required, what was required was the Olympic package being more 'modern' and representing what windsurfers were using.

As to the Contender if you'd remove the corks from your hat, you'd see that if it appealed to me then it would at a stroke increase its appeal by a factor of double because all the folk that are precluded from using it light weights, ladies etc, but of course that wouldn't suit the incumbents and there at a stroke you have the issue of class v commercial supplier that wishes to broaden its market and why classes are a bloody nuisance to the point they drive builders out of business in their own self interest and by the sounds of it you included, so I count you among those 'foolish' enough not to consider the implications of their self serving. Just as I condemn the actions of the ILCA for exactly the same reason. You and they are indeed acting foolishly, that is beyond any doubt in my mind.

Your first paragraph admits that the Prodigy was slower than the IMCO, which meant that the Prodigy was useless for the IMCO sailors who raced in mixed fleets or who simply liked going fast. So what you were trying to do, it seems, was to make many IMCO class sailors throw away a board we liked and instead, move the class to a board designed to suit ISAF.  So you were actually trying to be restrictive - just what you complain about.
As far as the Contender goes, you just admitted that the changes you want won't suit the owners - and yet it is apparent you don't give a damn about them. I cannot get over the complete indifference to the effect your ideas would have on the boats they have spent their money, their work and their passion on. 
The major point that you continue to ignore is that your claims don't stack up against reality. The classes that have changed the most, as you want them to do, often do very poorly. The classes that allow most development are less popular than SMODs. The classes that stick to their original design often do very well. Reality shows that attacking those who have supported a class rarely succeeds.  The fact is that it is you who are wrong and ILCA who are right, and your abuse of them is the foolishness.






Tell me, where are all the IMCO sailors now? The board continued to be produced, why didn't you all continue sailing it and why is the RSX a significantly heavier and slower dog of a board still going? Well I say still going that aint going to continue for much longer unless it worlks wit a foil which I very much doubt due to the stresses on the finbox.

Re the Contender, those corks are still blocking your view. If the Contender were built lighter, to suit the likes of me and the rest of us girls, it could have a smaller rig, which it is not beyond the bounds of reason, to be designed in such a way it equalled, but did not exceed the current rig, it's not rocket science and it might even have a higher boom . Un likely since the class is probably full of dullards like yourself who refuse to see any wood beyond the trees whilst they contemplate all the great times past.

Stop telling me I'm wrong, like most women, that is impossible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 11:33am
"Well I say still going that aint going to continue for much longer unless it worlks wit a foil which I very much doubt due to the stresses on the finbox. "

your wrong  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by iGRF



Tell me, where are all the IMCO sailors now? The board continued to be produced, why didn't you all continue sailing it and why is the RSX a significantly heavier and slower dog of a board still going? Well I say still going that aint going to continue for much longer unless it worlks wit a foil which I very much doubt due to the stresses on the finbox.


If the IMCO had had a strong association then they may have been able to preserve/save the class from all the commercial messing about to make a short term buck which is what killed it.


Originally posted by iGRF



Re the Contender, those corks are still blocking your view. If the Contender were built lighter, to suit the likes of me and the rest of us girls, it could have a smaller rig, which it is not beyond the bounds of reason, to be designed in such a way it equalled, but did not exceed the current rig, it's not rocket science and it might even have a higher boom . Un likely since the class is probably full of dullards like yourself who refuse to see any wood beyond the trees whilst they contemplate all the great times past. 

If you want a lighter more modern version of the Contender with a high boom and lightweight hull there is an obvious recommendation; but it does require some level of motor  skills, knowledge of the sea/wind and some athletic ability ... maybe stick with your 3.7  Wink




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 2:50pm
Results from selection trials:
Aero 80%
Laser 69%
Melges 54%
D-Zero 52%

"RS Aero's finished product exceeded all other in terms of quality and durability"

And of the Laser: "Since 2014, ILCA has increased efforts to monitor the standardization of equipment, but the introduction of upgrades and cooperation with all builders remains a challenge."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 4:20pm
Very surprised regarding RS Aero winning build quality, never heard of rudder and Pintels falling off a new Laser or other fittings pulling out, must have added extra CSM in decks and hull
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

"<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Lucida Grande", "Segoe UI", Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif;">Well I say still going that aint going to continue for much longer unless it worlks wit a foil which I very much doubt due to the stresses on the finbox.</span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Lucida Grande", "Segoe UI", Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif;"> "</span>
your wrong  Wink


No, I'm not, that is a completely different board, probably cheaper to build but will be sold more expensively I suspect.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Old Timer


Originally posted by iGRF


Tell me, where are all the IMCO sailors now? The board continued to be produced, why didn't you all continue sailing it and why is the RSX a significantly heavier and slower dog of a board still going? Well I say still going that aint going to continue for much longer unless it worlks wit a foil which I very much doubt due to the stresses on the finbox.

If the IMCO had had a strong association then they may have been able to preserve/save the class from all the commercial messing about to make a short term buck which is what killed it.
Originally posted by iGRF

Re the Contender, those corks are still blocking your view. If the Contender were built lighter, to suit the likes of me and the rest of us girls, it could have a smaller rig, which it is not beyond the bounds of reason, to be designed in such a way it equalled, but did not exceed the current rig, it's not rocket science and it might even have a higher boom . Un likely since the class is probably full of dullards like yourself who refuse to see any wood beyond the trees whilst they contemplate all the great times past. 
If you want a lighter more modern version of the Contender with a high boom and lightweight hull there is an obvious recommendation; but it does require some level of motor  skills, knowledge of the sea/wind and some athletic ability ... maybe stick with your 3.7  Wink
Yes, I've had my eye on that, but it's a tad underpowered tbh, 7.4? Too small a main sail and 3.9 mtrs? It's not really going to do it for me..
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