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ILCA drop LPE as a builder |
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bustinben
Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
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Topic: ILCA drop LPE as a builder Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 6:41am |
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They posted it on their facebook page. In my experience people with really really strong positions always use words like "deplorable", "catastrophic" and "disturbing" when communicating the facts of a situation Reading between the lines here... LP wanted to rinse ILCA when renewing the trademark agreement which lets them use the name "laser" for the class association. ILCA told them to swivel, so LP then refused to allow them to carry out the inspections they want. LP now does not consider them to be a "legitimate" regulatory body and handbags are flying. The rest of it is just fluff. Out of one side of their mouth they say that only they are allowed to supply lasers for the Olympics in Paris, and out of the other they point out that they supplied the lasers for the Youth Worlds in New Zealand (a PSA territory). Which is it? (The answer is obvious, World Sailing can purchase/rent the boats from whoever they like and import them for their own use to wherever they want them). There's nothing stopping any of the other manufacturers exporting their product to the LP territories other than the trademark protection. If LP cast their mind back a little.... to the Bruce Kirby dispute, where they refused to renew the agreement to use the Bruce Kirby trademark which allowed them to put the measurement plaque which bore it on their boats. How was that solved? In their favour and to ensure continued supply of equipment, the class rules where changed to remove the requirement for the Bruce Kirby trademark from the plaque. Well, now it's your turn LP The class association appears to be taking control at last. It's well overdue. |
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CT249
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 10:15am | ||
The Olympic Class Plaque (Plague?) Terms and Conditions clause 3.1 appears to prevent any builder from preventing any sailor or organisation from purchasing from any other builder, anywhere in the world. So the trademark protection seems to be unavailable to the Babymaulers. If they use the trademark, they violate the OPCTCs and therefore lose their own right to make class-legal boats. That leaves them with no class to offer sailors.
Looking at the OPCTCs, which also allow WS to inspect factories at any reasonable hour and to delegate those inspections to the class association, it appears that Digit Removers Inc may be in deep doo doo. And wouldn't that be nice to see! Edited by CT249 - 03 Apr 19 at 10:19am |
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CT249
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 10:16am | ||
Well spotted!
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 12:09pm | ||
The reason this is going to go on for years and cost hundreds of thousands is the detail of the contracts. I looked up what was available in public and court documents at the time of the Kirby case, and all the contracts have termination clauses which cover what builders are and aren't allowed to do when the contracts end. At least some of those were to do with Kirby/LPE contracts though, and that's still going through the courts.
I forget the detail, but as I recall the termination clauses prohibit the former builder from building anything that uses the Laser construction manual. However for that to work the contract needs to stand up in court, and if it involves US courts we can be sure nothing will happen for years. There's also the possibility that the termination clauses can be evaded by some shenanigans with Rastregar's maze of companies. Sell of all LPEs assets to another company cheap, dissolve LPE, and some *completely unrelated* company starts building boats using Velum's trademarks... I have no idea how this stuff works though, so who knows... Edited by JimC - 03 Apr 19 at 12:27pm |
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Peter Barton
Posting king Joined: 10 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 129 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 4:31pm | ||
The RS Aero is set to hit 2000 boats built in time for their 5th Anniversary Parties, late June this year. There are about 1900 now. That is more like 8 RS Aero per week on average, which I think is awesome. I wouldn't compare any new Class with the Laser build numbers. They benefit from a nearly 50 year old established market with all those repeat sales from corporate and private customers. The addition of the Olympic aspirant purchases and all those within that pathway add that many more again. New niche boats will expand quickly to fulfil that niche and then tail off with a trickle of replacement purchases. New classes' expansion may be limited geographically to locations where they have achieved critical mass, thwarting growth after the initial bubble. The RS Aero provides a modern alternative that is both rewarding and affordable in a large market sector to a very wide cross section of sailors. Having rapidly achieved critical mass for good racing and World Sailing Class status enabling popular World Championships I don't anticipate any drop off in RS Aero builds anytime soon!
Edited by Peter Barton - 03 Apr 19 at 4:33pm |
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Old Timer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 05 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 370 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 5:29pm | ||
Well whilst Laser squabble it creates opportunities for others.
Would I buy a new laser presently? Indeed can I buy one?
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 6:26pm | ||
'Kirby Torch' going to reappear ?
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 7:05pm | ||
I'm sure RS are pleased, but if I read the published numbers right the Laser builders combined were doing 20 times that back in the 70s... |
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Old Timer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 05 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 370 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 7:32pm | ||
Yeah, but in the 70s they had an unopposed market position.
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CT249
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 19 at 11:10pm | ||
Hell no they didn't! In fact the reason the Laser is the boat we know is that it was opposed by competitors that made RS look like minnows. This was a time when vast conglomerates were buying into the leisure market and selling huge numbers of sailboats. In the US market alone, the Laser was up against the following;
The Sunfish and Force 5, owned by AMF - a conglomerate that made nuclear reactors, inter continental ballistic missiles and owned Harley Davidson, among other bits 'n pieces. The Copperhead and Sidewinder, owned by the huge plastics manufacturer AMG. Just ONE of their powerboat ranges for ONE customer sold over 250,000 boats. The Jetwind, a Sunfish type sold by Sears, the largest retailer in the USA at the time with about 350,000 employees. This was when Sears was so huge that the HQ it built around the time the Laser came out is still the USA's second-tallest building. Chrysler Man O' War. Designed by McAlpine Downey and supported by Chrysler Sailboats, part of the USA's third biggest car maker. The Chrysler sailboat range was supported by semi-trailers, 75 salesman, four sailing simulators, a huge dealer network, and massive advertising. In Japan, the Laser faced direct competition from the massive multinational Yamaha and the Laser clone "Seahoppher". In France, the Laser faced direct competition from the X4er, a Laser type designed by Christian Maury (of 420 fame) and backed by the might of the FFV. I think the Topper may have had more corporate backing, albeit rather later and in a rather different bracket. The initial concept for the Weekender was that it be backed by camping manufacturer Coleman, because without such corporate backing there was no way the Kirby/Bruce/Fogh trio could take on the might of AMF, AMC, Chrysler etc for the "beachboat" market. As Ian Bruce told me, the Laser only became aimed at the racing market when the Coleman backing failed to materialise and Kirby, Bruce and Fogh realised that while they could not take on the corporates without Coleman, they could sell to racers. An interesting exercise is to go to an early '70s Y&Y and count up the advertising pages. In the boat show issue, for example, many of the traditional ODs had far more advertising than the Laser did. There are also SMODs that had more ads that have long since vanished. Later in the Laser era, there was very strong opposition from the windsurfer market. Mistral sold over 300,000 of their Competition boards alone. There were 400,000 of the original Windsurfers. Hobie-type surfcats were also booming. RS face nothing like that sort of competition for the small sailing craft market. The Laser succeeded despite being out-spent, not because of marketing clout. Edited by CT249 - 03 Apr 19 at 11:14pm |
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