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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 19 at 6:47pm
Two 10 year old boats got good results at the Solo winters last weekend.
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Fatboi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 9:28am
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Fatboi

Not quite true about the performance. The guy who was 11th at the nationals last year sailed a composite boat that is probably 10-12 years old. He had an old wavelength rig and edge sail. Not what you would consider top gear but with 3 results in the top 10 you cannot say it held back too much! 


The first wave of FRP boats is around that age now. They came as composites as well as there is one at my local club. It still can't keep pace with the current generation though.

Judging by the results at the Nationals last year it can...! If it was 5% slower on performance, no way you could come 11th in that fleet! 

Photo of the boat and sail combo here, green boat on the right.  https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-ZZCr94g/A
https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-zZRKWRV/A

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 9:58am
If you get good starts and are a quality helm, then in a fleet of that size you could overcome 5% performance differential 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 10:52am
Some clarifications and observations

The 5% came from the data used for our personal handicapping system. All results are converted to % of winners corrected time. So the number includes not only any difference in boat speed, but also consequences of slower boatspeed ie dirty air, more traffic at mark roundings etc.

The spread of finish times in a large fleet usually approaches 25% of winners time. It would be interesting to see times and work out how much 5% time results in place changes in different parts of the fleet.

Well built epoxy/foam sandwich boats seem to have a very long competitive lifespan.

Something I must do is to figure out which classes have had wholesale moves to foam sandwich without major design changes and compare PY numbers before and after the change. One naturally thinks of Merlins and Phantoms, but there will be others.

Edited by JimC - 27 Feb 19 at 11:24am
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Fatboi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 10:55am
I disagree with that in a fleet of 100 boats! Even if you get off the front row, you will struggle to hold your lane and get bounced around. 
If everyone is doing 5kts around the course, you will be doing 4.75kts, which on a championship sized reach will result in getting rolled by at least couple of boats. 
You would have to be exceptional to get top 10 results in this fleet if you were 5% slower out the box... I dont think it is possible. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 1:41pm
Agreed

You may survive with 1 or 2% less boatspeed but losing 5m every 100m …

- youd be lucky to finish on the same leg
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Fatboi

Not quite true about the performance. The guy who was 11th at the nationals last year sailed a composite boat that is probably 10-12 years old. He had an old wavelength rig and edge sail. Not what you would consider top gear but with 3 results in the top 10 you cannot say it held back too much! 


The first wave of FRP boats is around that age now. They came as composites as well as there is one at my local club. It still can't keep pace with the current generation though.

Judging by the results at the Nationals last year it can...! If it was 5% slower on performance, no way you could come 11th in that fleet! 

Photo of the boat and sail combo here, green boat on the right.  https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-ZZCr94g/A
https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-zZRKWRV/A


I would guess it would work on where that 5% is (not that I ever quoted 5%, I just said the guy in the composite couldnt keep up with the newer FRP boats). Unlikely to be upwind where waterline speed would be king. On the offwind legs though that would be where I would expect to see the biggest difference especially on the small puddle I sail on.

We had a chap in a Thresher built wooden Solo. It had been well looked after and was the right shape (I seem to recall the Boon Solo was moulded from a Thresher hull). He was always up there in it and is not appreciably quicker in his new boat.


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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 6:37am
My Miles beats modern frp boats consistently and looks 500% better. When Taxi comes to Blithfield for a pre event tune up, strangely the positions are hugely changed!.

If you have somewhere to store a double floor wooden boat during the hard frosts, then saving £3k+ against a " white boat" is the sensible choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 7:17am
On Sunday it was pretty obvious that my wooden Boon was as fast upwind as the frp ones - in spite of towing weed on my rudder, we kept crossing tacks.
Offline, a newish Winder 1 stomped away from the rest of us - it was gusty any being inland catching the right gust is crucial...

The key to good performance - apart from host & sail condition - seems to be the helm's choice of position, both for heel and trim. Upwind, sit forward and allow a little heel to allow the hull shape to help the boat upwind...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 4:08pm
Not the easiest of boats to sit as far forward as you need to be when it's light I found. That quite honestly waste of space traveller thing makes it awkward as does all the other gubbins and clutter. I was forced to choose by SWMBO, it was felt six boats in two clubs was over the top so Solution or Solo became bit of a no brainer really even though I did enjoy some moments of sailing it and of course like hitting your head on a brick wall it was great when it was over.
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