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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 9:19am
There is an RS Vision in the corner of our boatpark, I have never seen it being sailed.  Every month we have a working party and move 50 or so Solos, Lasers, Merlin’s and N12’s in order to cut the grass.  Any attempt to move the Vision is halted when we realise its weight ... which is probably why it does not get sailed ... polyethylene is a rubbish material for any sailing dinghies other than Teras or Toppers, and boats like this cannot be relied upon to grow the sport.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 9:53am
Hang on, a Tasar or Icon are longer than a Merlin and 30kg lighter. The Vision is longer than a Merlin and 27kg heavier. So the Vision is closer to the Merlin than the Merlin is to an Icon or Tasar. If weight is bad, why bother with a heavy boat like a Merlin, N12 or Solo?  To praise some heavy boats while damning another doesn't appear to be particularly even handed. If light weight counts, why not sail truly lightweight boats instead of MRs, N12s and Solos? If you can excuse the extra weight the MR, N12 and Solo carry, why can't you excuse the extra weight the Vision carries?

One thing that's certainly not going to grow the sport is people belittling the boats that many beginners choose.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 9:58am
Beginners choose Merlin or National 12? Maybe they do outside the UK but those are unlikely choices for a newby to the sport - certainly great choices as a second or third boat IMO!

Solo does get chosen a lot I guess, still not sure why apart from lots of people sail them
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 10:26am
I wasn't trying to say that beginners choose N12s, Solos or MRs. The point was that they are all pretty heavy boats, so for David to criticise the Vision for being heavy while praising MRs and Solos appears to be like the pot calling the kettle black. If a Vision is bad because heavy boats are bad then Solos, N12s and MRs are also bad, because they are also heavy boats by modern standards.
If light weight is what counts, then people shouldn't sail MRs and Solos but Icons, Tasars and Aeros.




Edited by Chris 249 - 14 Feb 19 at 10:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 10:57am
I'm unconvinced that the Vision weighs the same as it does in the brochure! Personally, I think there is a sweet spot for weight. Light enough to move around, heavy enough not to fall over when launched or blow off its trolley in "normal" weather.

I know none of this has anything to do with sailing qualities. Those are in the eye of the beholder, or we wouldn't have a world with both RS300s and Tideways racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Chris 249

   The push for this sort of change normally seems to come from people outside a class or in the industry


Got to disagree with you there. My experience of rule changes in development classes (and I still have the mental scars) is that they are very often driven by a faction within the class.

Changes pushed from outside (other than class builders) are very unusual IME. I can think of the spinnaker on the Tornado and the centremain on the Topper. While you do get people coming up to you at the Sailboat show and saying 'I'd definitely join your class if you did this' IME they are usually best ignored because 10 minuteslater they'll be saying something similar to another class, and 10 minutes after that ordering a newLaser...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 11:03am
Originally posted by davidyacht

polyethylene is a rubbish material for any sailing dinghies other than Teras or Toppers, and boats like this cannot be relied upon to grow the sport.

I fear you make my point.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by davidyacht

polyethylene is a rubbish material for any sailing dinghies other than Teras or Toppers, and boats like this cannot be relied upon to grow the sport.

I fear you make my point.

Jim I had read your post, and I would very much like to concur with the general thrust of your arguement, however if boats are too heavy to pull up the ramp or move around the boat park, they are hardly going to be an attractive option for entry level sailors to fall in love and progress with the sport, either on or off the water.

At least an old GRP Wayfarer or Laser can be resurrected from a boatpark graveyard, and these boats offer the opportunity for sailors to progress, I can't see this with heavy polyethylene training boats on all sorts of levels.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 1:18pm
Personal experience and sone considerable anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that many SMODs are significantly heavier than the weight the manufacturer publishes. L2k was a case in point, it gained something like 40kg when they got 'found out' and the quoted weight of 100kg was quietly revised to a much more realistic 140kg. They also, typically, don't specify if the quoted weight is bare hull, hull with fittings, ropes, foils, etc or, even all up (The RS400 does give an all up weight as well as a hull only weight but is the exception.........). At least you know that your new(ish) Merlin hull (with CB and attached fittings) weighs pretty much exactly 98kg.

My gut feeling is that the sweet spot, ready to sail weight, for a singlehander is around 75kg and about 100kg for a two hander but both my boats are somewhat heavier  Confused.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 14 Feb 19 at 1:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 1:20pm
I enjoy sailing Hartley 15, far superior to Bahia, I would buy a Hartley 15 if I were in the market for a 2 hander.

Edited by 423zero - 14 Feb 19 at 1:20pm
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