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Peter Barton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Barton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

To me, sailing is starting to get a bit silly with pricing. 
If you are not bought in to it and start looking at new boats, or if you have got bitten by the bug and then want to start getting competitive and racing want to upgrade to a new boat then it is a huge sum of money! 
RS Aero, nearly £10k
Laser - £6k
OK - £10k
Solo - £9k


RS Aero 7 is £7,190
Add trolley and cover for £598 and you are good to go.

Where do you get £10k from?
£10k would get you all three rigs and plenty extras - ready for the whole family in a wide range of winds! That is a load more versatility value, if required.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 5:34pm
Still an eye watering amount of money to young people, especially. And to part time dinghy instructors/boot fitters like me.

But I've no real idea how that compares to a similar product from 1979, say? Comparison of income available to be spent on boy's toys, allowing for inflation?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Rupert

But I've no real idea how that compares to a similar product from 1979, say? Comparison of income available to be spent on boy's toys, allowing for inflation?

There are so may more boys toys, that's the trouble.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 6:29pm
Cirrus, you complain about people harking back to a golden age, then do it yourself by saying how good socials were back then, and how so many people got into sailing by hitching a ride. My memory involves seeing people driving home drunk and being warned about crewing for certain people as they were either crap (the better option) or (usually sugar coated) abusive.

Touched a raw nerve there Rupert ...what sort of a dysfunctional club does it take to produce such an unfortunate set of memories ?   I feel very much more fortunate  in my own early sailing years at  Frensham in the 70’s and at Burghfield for most of decades since.  Not always perfect of course but always open, welcoming and enthusiastic .. and with some great socials as hinted previously.  

My point is that it is NOT really about which class is 'best' or whether purist fleet 'class' racing prevails over handicap  ... It is, and should imo, be as much or  more about a clubs atmosphere and approach, openness and enthusiasm for sailing in the round ... including racing (just one aspect amongst many note !).   Knocking other classes, individuals or forms of sailing/racing and being inward looking is doing exactly the opposite and cannot but help contribute to a clubs decline and fall.   The organisation of racing can be good bad or indifferent but is no more important than these other aspects.  ‘Great racing’ at a ‘poor’ club is still never going to ‘keep’ or develop its membership forever.   Classes and forms of racing come and go ... clubs can have a much longer life and so they should  !!  That is imo at least !


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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Still an eye watering amount of money to young people, especially. And to part time dinghy instructors/boot fitters like me.

But I've no real idea how that compares to a similar product from 1979, say? Comparison of income available to be spent on boy's toys, allowing for inflation?

Seem to remember Spud Rowsell saying in the late seventies that one of his fully fitted Merlin Rockets was about the the same price as a Mini ... don’t think that a Winder Merlin is much different today.

However back then, I lived at home rent free and all of my income could be spent on my Merlin, now youngsters are saddled with more debt ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Peter Barton

Originally posted by Fatboi

To me, sailing is starting to get a bit silly with pricing. 
If you are not bought in to it and start looking at new boats, or if you have got bitten by the bug and then want to start getting competitive and racing want to upgrade to a new boat then it is a huge sum of money! 
RS Aero, nearly £10k
Laser - £6k
OK - £10k
Solo - £9k


RS Aero 7 is £7,190
Add trolley and cover for £598 and you are good to go.

Where do you get £10k from?
£10k would get you all three rigs and plenty extras - ready for the whole family in a wide range of winds! That is a load more versatility value, if required.


And club deals start from three boats upward, so relatively easy to get them even cheaper. Having bought as a group the Aero was pretty close to a Laser price and should last a lot longer before sails etc. need updating. Overall ownership cost is therefore lower than a Laser and in our club at least, the Aero fleet is bigger and more active than the Lasers.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 8:23pm
Cirrus, just putting an alternative perspective! Quite agree it's about the clubs, but not convinced they are less friendly now than they were. Maybe many aren't about dad going racing any more, but about family balance, a bit like the rest of society. But the most successful clubs do appear to have strong racing as well as other threads of sailing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 8:34pm
Likewise as long as you dont buy from LP a new laser is less than 5k
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Late starter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 19 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Still an eye watering amount of money to young people, especially. And to part time dinghy instructors/boot fitters like me.

But I've no real idea how that compares to a similar product from 1979, say? Comparison of income available to be spent on boy's toys, allowing for inflation?

My first Laser cost £600 in 1978. That was just the boat, didn't include a trolley or cover. Google tells me that equates to £3353 in modern money. That was quite an expensive boat at the club for it's day. as most folk built their own back then, and from memory I think Mirror kits were around £150, perhaps a bit more for something like an Ent. Different era, simpler boats, but yes the sport was way cheaper which might explain why the level of participation was way higher too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 19 at 10:05pm
I would challenge that regards the RS Aero.
- A significant demographic of RS Aero take up is sailors returning to the sport after a break (career, kids...) who were motivated to do so with the RS Aero's performance/reward and lightness but would not have bought back into the previous heavier options.
- Many smaller sailors (small ladies and youths in particular) would not be able to pull a heavier boat up a steep slipway singlehanded or manhandle it ashore and the RS Aero provides a viable option for them.


Not convinced that that many people would have sat on the sidelines in the absence of the Aero or Zero. Sounds more like post-rationalisation of their purchase based on the central marketing message for the Aero!  Wink 

Ironic that in a sport where the narrative that 'one-design is best' reigns supreme has ended up with clubs filled with handicap menageries. Put the idea of 'one-design' to cyclists or kayakers they argue just as vehemently that it doesn't matter that everyone has different kit because it's the human that makes the difference...  Confused

Seems to work for both those sports (and formula 18 seems to work for cats), so why not dinghies? Multi-manufacturer formula classes run with a keen eye to control costs but with review and development of the rules at planned intervals (like the 49ers). Surely a more constructive direction for sailors and manufacturers than the latest round of manufacturer v manufacturer beggar-my-neighbour.




Edited by DiscoBall - 16 Feb 19 at 10:06pm
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