J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
List classes of boat for sale |
Class proliferation... |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
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Topic: Class proliferation... Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 10:52am |
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Well what a refreshing tale this is to read, thanks for posting, Congratulations on finding a great club, wouldn't it be great if their formula could be replicated across the country, with a little ad campaign for them to use in local newpapers to attract adult newcomers.. Wouldn't it be great if there were a joined up marketing initiative between the RYA and the Dinghy business backing such an effort.. Wouldn't it be great if we had someone at said governing body who even thought like this? Edited by iGRF - 13 Feb 19 at 10:53am |
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DiscoBall
Far too distracted from work Joined: 03 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 12:54pm | |
I think the dangly pole is far superior to a conventional one. For the newbie crews I've taken out in the Tasar the pole qualifies as 'most hated item' |
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PeterG
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 2:01pm | |
One of my main reasons for fitting a dangly jib pole was that I frequently sail with relatively inexperienced crews. It took a little time to get properly set up, but now it is it's far easier and quicker for a new crew to use, and there's no chance of one fumbling and dropping it over the side (which happened in the past more than once). And as a bonus if I go out alone I can still boom the jib.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 3:59pm | |
I agree, the complication being remembering to uncleat the pole at tack time as you used it on all points of sail in the Icon aside from upwind.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Cirrus
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 4:45pm | |
the complication being remembering to uncleat the pole at tack time as
you used it on all points of sail in the Icon aside from upwind. Not quite true .. You could use it upwind to adjust the back of the sail but this should have only ever been 'slight' and the boat could be easily tacked without 'dumping' it... ie as automatic as could be - set and forget. Offwind they are fully adjustable to get just whatever angle / tension you want on the jib - and all you needed to do in a gybe was to release a single downhaul line ... and pull it back on on the other side .. the pole automatically setting to the new side was a feature. Much much simpler in most ways than a 'regular' jib stick and if explained to a newbie in advance almost foolproof... Pretty much standard practice now on Ents', N12's, Albacores and most other 2 sail racers .. and Icon. I'm certain it could have been applied on the Tasar but they always seemed determined to set the class rules in 70's style mixed concrete - so I guess it just won't happen any time soon. Very low cost, very simple and better. Pity. .... |
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davidyacht
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 4:50pm | |
Guess it would make a nonsense of the aerodymically efficient rotating rig
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Happily living in the past
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Old Timer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 05 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 370 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 7:25pm | |
The Icon early death is a shame but the chopping and changing of builder and not having a big backer didn't help it off the launch pad ... Very hard for an small builder to establish a new class these days.
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Cirrus
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 7:32pm | |
Guess it would make a nonsense of the aerodymically efficient rotating rig You might be right ... but maybe not. If you have not used this system however the advantages and application may not be that obvious. When I raced Tasars a couple of decades ago a few crews did use the standard jib stick 'off' the opposing jib sheet some of the time allowing them a degree of control in a similar manner to the 'dangly' system. It worked very well in part but what a faff compared to the fully developed and tested dangly alternatives today !! When Icon went through development the first rigs were (larger) NS14 rotating ones. The dangly system worked very well with them but the overall (rotating) rig itself was not as good or as flexible across the wind range in use as hoped - hence the switch to a modest diameter but fixed non-rotating carbon stick. Bethwaite I think suggested at one point he would have gone for a slim carbon stick himself if they had made sense for the Taser in the 70's. Edited by Cirrus - 13 Feb 19 at 7:32pm |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 4:48am | |
Yes, right up till the end of his life (about three weeks before, if I recall correctly) Frank was advocating a switch to a carbon pole mast. The sticking points were (1) the class had fairly recently gone through some other significant changes (2) the new mast was spreaderless and therefore no one could be satisfied that it could be adjusted for crews of different weights.
One of those who raised the adjustment issue most strongly was a top-class international sailmaker who has been involved in leading edge sailcloth development, which is yet another indication that any inference that people want the rules "stuck in concrete" because they are against development or change per se is incorrect. Most people in most places around the world like their class rules to remain largely unchanged - look at the top classes in the USA, Australia, Germany etc and even in the UK to a large extent. We don't want to break classes apart, make boats uncompetitive, or exclude the owners who cannot afford the upgrade. We don't care if our one design race finishes 30 seconds earlier because we've all spend thousands improving our speed - if we want speed we'd get cats, foilers or kites. The push for this sort of change normally seems to come from people outside a class or in the industry - funny how easy it is to spend someone else's money or make someone else's boat obsolete! Edited by Chris 249 - 14 Feb 19 at 4:57am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 19 at 5:08am | |
Whoops, my earlier answer got lost. Yes, most of the big boat manufacturers realised the issue - the fact that RS, J/boats etc listen to their customers instead of the hype seems to be a key to their success. But much of the rest of the sport - many national authorities, World Sailing, most of the sailing media, many sailors, etc - seem to still be committed to the "make it extreme and they will come" mindset. They do silly things like keep dinghies out of the Youth Olympics in favour of kites, proposing an Olympics where kites, skiffs and foilers dominate, and as you mention, mocking entry level boats. I get the feeling (and of course it could well be wrong) that in windsurfing some of the manufacturers may be leading the way against that sort of thinking in a more explicit fashion. |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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