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Boats for sale
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So.. Laserati, shall we talk C5? |
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JimC 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
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 Topic: So.. Laserati, shall we talk C5?Posted: 02 Jan 19 at 5:32pm |
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Yep, it looks suspiciously as if Laser Performance are trying to undermine the Class Association with that pricing. The differential has nearly nothing to do with the CA royalty. It does, however, demonstrate that LP are willing to drop a good hundred quid off the price of a new sail if it suits them, which should be a good starting point for negotiating a discount ...
Edited by JimC - 02 Jan 19 at 5:36pm |
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 2:19am |
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What, that many tens of thousands of sailors can get to do what they like? |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Do Different
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Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 7:00am |
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As opposed to sailors buying from an effectively monopoly supplier, who is to a large extent protected from market forces and selling what is a very basic product at perceived large markups over cost of manufacture.
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 11:37am |
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But we choose that model because for us it's not an "inherent problem" but an advantage. We don't want to have a contest in which people use different kit, we want a contest in which we all use the same kit*. We are prepared to pay extra because we get what we want - for example I'm doing a worlds in Garda on supplied SMOD kit. That's not practical in many other classes, and freighting gear in would cost me more than I will pay in "inflated prices" for kit over many years.
Many of us don't want to develop kit in conjunction with sailmakers, or turn up to the nationals after training hard and finding that our rivals have just developed a new and faster cut. To some of us, buying a "better' product like a one-off sail is of as little interest as buying a 55kg 505 with masthead spinnaker and a redesigned hull would be to most 505 fans - it's outside the rules of our game and therefore not better at all. *within tolerances we are happy with, just as sailors of development or open-supply ODs have design tolerances they are happy with.
Edited by Chris 249 - 03 Jan 19 at 11:38am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 12:19pm |
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Simply that prices are entirely in the hands of the manufacturer, your only options are to buy one or not to buy one. Many SMOD classes manage to walk the tightrope between maximum profit and customer satisfaction without causing accusations of profiteering but some, it seems, don't. With most 'traditional' one designs you can choose to buy from several different sources, you can even assemble components yourself to minimise about costs should you choose to, so there is some element of competition WRT to price. With a Laser you can't even make up your own kicker from parts in the spares box without it taking you out of class.......
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 12:29pm |
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Trouble is it's well demonstrated that if you have competing suppliers within a class then what you end up with is a premium product at a very premium price. So the actual headline costs escalate. What keeps prices down is competition between classes. If class A gets viciously expensive then people don't buy a cheap and slow class A, they buy class B. Edited by JimC - 03 Jan 19 at 1:13pm |
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bustinben
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 15 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 1:47pm |
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And that's where the Olympics undermines everything - the best sailors have to sail a particular boat so they get screwed as does anyone else who wants the competition of the best sailors. You can't jump to another class because the people you want to race aren't sailing it and can't switch. It's almost as if world sailing should be doing something useful like making sure that doesn't happen by signing contracts with the suppliers to restrict price rises while the boat is an olympic class or something. The supplier is going to make a tonne of cash from all the extra free marketing and boat sales, but in return they have to keep prices stable. Seems sensible no? |
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 1:50pm |
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I disagree with the first half of that statement, the only way a trad class sailmaker (for example) gets premium prices for his sails is to have them win races. If your sails win races (i.e. are the fastest, in theory at least) people will pay more for them than the other guy who comes second. This means that the sails are better every year. SMOD sails are, basically, set in stone until the manufacturer decides to 'improve' them (and, usually, put the price up.....).
No argument with that though.......
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 03 Jan 19 at 1:51pm |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 2:24pm |
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Define better... In absolute terms the sail may be getting better. But in relative terms, as other sail-makers improve their sails to, the new sails aren't going to be any better at winning races relatively, than last years... the whole fleet can on average get faster, but the whole fleet can't on average improve their position! If you buy a SMOD sail, it's always be the best sail for the job of winning races that you can buy. I do think sail-makers compete slightly within each class on price as most people aren't going to spend double on a imperceptible improvement. But most would probably spend double on a 1% gain. The thing that seems to keep cost in check in most none SMOD classes is the associations stepping in to ban the exotic designs and materials. I think the pro's of more development type boats are opening up the game to involve ones ability to select equipment and opening up the ability to select weight specific equipment. The downside is that some people will always pay someone else to make those selections and do that design on their behalf. Edited by mozzy - 03 Jan 19 at 2:27pm |
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 2:26pm |
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Just sold last year's sail for £ 400 pretty much as good as new, bought new one for £ 725 on winter offer. £ 325 for sails each year isnt so bad. Solo class with four or five active "Trad" sailmakers, who imo put a huge amount into the class, including training days, helpful advice at events including boatpark seminars, tuning guides, telephone and online support.
I would venture that this is a better arrangement than the typical SMOD class, and particularly the LP model.
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Happily living in the past
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