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So.. Laserati, shall we talk C5?

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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 11:24am
I still use a wooden mast and boom, last year I used it more than half the time
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 12:34pm
I have a carbon fibre guitar  Wink

Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

GRFi
So why not just get into a class that ALREADY uses carbon sticks !! Nothing too complex about it surely† ? It is you choosing to buy into a class that does not use them after all is said and done ...that is the issue here.† Plenty of variety out there already ... just sail something closer to what you (really) want.† 'They' will not change didly squat just because you, as a single individual, want something or other ... unless you buy 50 or a 100+† or 500+ of course when they might just look at the opportunity.† † It is simply a commercial decision and not a lot to do with 'Bullsh*t Baffles Brains' at all.† If is looked likely to make proper money for a real bulder/supplier† ... you would have it already !!
Surely it is simply delusion to think anything much else† ? ......


It is precisely because I have entered a class that uses carbon and when I discovered just how much of what I paid went towards that carbon mast which was over two grand for what is a very basic product made by probably the poorest company, Superspars I realised just how much I've been ripped off - violated in fact.

This Boat is my greatest enjoyment to date, something I'd love to see other folk share, but at this price I couldn't bring myself to even recommend it. Now it's rig dimensions are not very different to the Solution, which in turn isn't that great a difference from a Solo i.e they support a sail of around 8.5 sq mrs in fact many dinghy operate around that 8.5-9.0 mtr sail area requirement which can be perfectly supported by a 6 mtr mast. So why are they so stupidly expensive when a commercial company can profit by making carbon tubes 60 dia and 6.00 long for £350 here in the UK, not even offshore. When I saw you once, you were trialling a white carbon tube you'd sourced from somewhere, I bet that didn't price in anywhere near two grand.

Edited by iGRF - 06 Jan 19 at 1:19pm
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 1:22pm
You can spend £2500 with selden on a bare joined tube for  i14. With track maybe. 7.5m long weighs 5kg or so. HM fibres which makes a big difference, but a tube is not just a tube.
Similarly a tube is not a turn key mast.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 5:22pm
Just because you can spend two and a half grand on a carbon tube because a lame bunch of rules/regs/previous users pseudo scientific BS suggests it's what you need, doesn't mean you should. What you should do is use your noddle to work out how it can be done better and or more cost effectively. Let's look at booms, I've still got that Selden carbon tube with a couple of bits added to it that cost Christ knows how much, what's the difference between it and a stock off the shelf tube from one of these commercial suppliers? Not a lot, I'd venture to suggest. Except two or three hundred quid more because it's being sold to dinghy dimwits.

Edited by iGRF - 06 Jan 19 at 5:26pm
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 5:37pm
Not a lot, I'd venture to suggest. Except two or three hundred quid more because it's being sold to dinghy dimwits.

So literally do us all a favour then and set up in production or distribution.  You think the market opportunity is just waiting out there so what exactly is stopping you doing it ?   The dinghy dimwits will surely be tripping over each other to shovel money into your hands ....  They must be a rather thick lot when not a single one has seen the same opportunity.    Confused
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zeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 6:56pm
In the class I sail , two of the builders have tried making masts from proprietary tubes. Both turned out to be too soft( so were slow)  and one of them turned out to be fragile too. Itís not as easy as getting a tube and calling it a mast.
Cirrus on the other hand produced a good carbon mast for his boat using and old blasť mast when he flirted with the British moth class a couple of years ago .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 8:00pm
You reckon carbon masts are exxy - some crims are ripping off poor kiteboarders so badly that they charge over 1100 quid for a kiteboard, and all they are is just a plank. Confused

Sure, there might be some pseudo-scientific BS about how they are made of "military grade carbon fibre" and some silly claims about their bend characteristics, but it's obvious that they could be popped out for 10 quid like a Boogie board. All the kiteboarders need is someone to use their noddle to work out how it can be done better and more cost effectively.
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

You reckon carbon masts are exxy - some crims are ripping off poor kiteboarders so badly that they charge over 1100 quid for a kiteboard, and all they are is just a plank. Confused
Sure, there might be some pseudo-scientific BS about how they are made of "military grade carbon fibre" and some silly claims about their bend characteristics, but it's obvious that they could be popped out for 10 quid like a Boogie board. All the kiteboarders need is someone to use their noddle to work out how it can be done better and more cost effectively.


And then there is the Winner Optimist with its no polish, ribletted gelcoat.....effective at 12-14 knots. Cos an Opi goes that fast a lot
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 19 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

You reckon carbon masts are exxy - some crims are ripping off poor kiteboarders so badly that they charge over 1100 quid for a kiteboard, and all they are is just a plank. Confused
Sure, there might be some pseudo-scientific BS about how they are made of "military grade carbon fibre" and some silly claims about their bend characteristics, but it's obvious that they could be popped out for 10 quid like a Boogie board. All the kiteboarders need is someone to use their noddle to work out how it can be done better and more cost effectively.


But kiteboarders support a market structure with at least three margins, thus supporting shops and schools.

Dimwits get their stuff vertically so support no market structure and are expected to do their own marketing to further the profitability of their suppliers and teach newcomers whilst paying exorbitantly for the privilege.

I'm not suggesting using stock carbon tube, I'm suggesting the dimwits get together to put pressure on their suppliers using the carbon tube example as leverage in pricing discussions

Oh and it's 1200 quid for the top end kiteboard but that's Cartan Carbon (look it up) there are carbon boards available for £699 and leven less carbon for as little as £499.

Edited by iGRF - 06 Jan 19 at 9:29pm
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