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So.. Laserati, shall we talk C5?

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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 3:47pm
There is no monopoly in SMOD kit surely - not when there is plenty of SMOD choices to be made plus any number of non-SMODs alternatives available.

Don't like a particular list of  SMOD kit prices ?   Please please vote with your feet then .... Oh what you really want is 'having your cake and eating it' ?   .. Well now we've all heard that one somewhere else ....was it not that blond haired politician aand his new friends going on about something similar - I can't quite remember the details .... but with about as much chance of getting it as well !!  .... Wink         
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 4:04pm
It's a choice we all make, I choose to sail a Blaze because the boat suits me, it being an SMOD did not influence my decision either way  Thumbs Up
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 19 at 4:26pm
I currently own 3 boats where the sail choice is fixed, and 2 where it is not. It didn't rank in my buying decisions at all. Luckily for me, Ian Morgan has made me very reasonably priced sails for the 2 open classes, Minisail and Puffin. My Banks Lightning sail is SM, but with a choice of cloths, and is fairly new. The Firefly really needs new rags, but costs have gone a bit high there for the use she gets, and the Topper sail is OK for club racing and a blast around, and may be sold soon anyway.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 19 at 1:44am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

I disagree with the first half of that statement, the only way a trad class sailmaker (for example) gets premium prices for his sails is to have them win races. If your sails win races (i.e. are the fastest, in theory at least) people will pay more for them than the other guy who comes second. This means that the sails are better every year. SMOD sails are, basically, set in stone until the manufacturer decides to 'improve' them (and, usually, put the price up.....).



although that does  depend on how the class  runs things ...  choice of approved makers vs  you cvan buy from anyone and  if it measures it's in 
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 19 at 2:42am
Originally posted by mozzy

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

This means that the sails are better every year. 
Define better...

In absolute terms the sail may be getting better. But in relative terms, as other sail-makers improve their sails to, the new sails aren't going to be any better at winning races relatively, than last years... the whole fleet can on average get faster, but the whole fleet can't on average improve their position!  

If you buy a SMOD sail, it's always be the best sail for the job of winning races that you can buy. 

I do think sail-makers compete slightly within each class on price as most people aren't going to spend double on a imperceptible improvement. But most would probably spend double on a 1% gain. 

The thing that seems to keep cost in check in most none SMOD classes is the associations stepping in to ban the exotic designs and materials. 

I think the pro's of more development type boats are opening up the game to involve ones ability to select equipment and opening up the ability to select weight specific equipment. The downside is that some people will always pay someone else to make those selections and do that design on their behalf. 
 

Great post.
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The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 19 at 3:12am
Originally posted by davidyacht

Just sold last year's sail for 400 pretty much as good as new, bought new one for 725 on winter offer.  325 for sails each year isnt so bad.  Solo class with four or five active "Trad" sailmakers, who imo put a huge amount into the class, including training days, helpful advice at events including boatpark seminars, tuning guides, telephone and online support.

I would venture that this is a better arrangement than the typical SMOD class, and particularly the LP model.

Nope, it's not a better arrangement for those of us who don't want it.

Put it this way; would it be "a better arrangement" if the Solo class became a development class?  It may be a faster boat, but I'd bet that most Solo sailors would not find that "a better arrangement" because they chose the Solo as it is because they are reasonably intelligent people who find that it suits their situation and taste. They don't want someone making their hull obsolete next week. They may not want an"us and them" situation in which buying new kit gives a few sailors a significant advantage. They don't want the possibility that the complete boat sitting in their shed may become useless at championships.

It's the same with SMODs. We are not morons or brainwashed dupes. We choose SMODs because they are what we want. I don't, for instance, have any need for a new tuning guide for my SMODs because the kit hasn't changed so that is no advantage for me. I don't want anyone developing new sails because I sail several classes and like being able to store one or two classes for a year or two while I concentrate on a third class and then pull one of the stored boats out and get back into it, go to the same settings, and get back into racing without updating all the gear.

How would it be better for me to have to go out and buy an OK, for example, and then spend thousands to ship it to the next worlds AND buy another boat to train on during the meantime? How is it better if I may spend all that money and time and find that another person has spent more money with a different sailmaker and found a better set of kit?  Why is that "a better arrangement" than saving thousands of dollars by being able to charter kit at the worlds?

To insult SMOD sailors by inferring that they don't know what is a "better arrangement" for their needs is silly.
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The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 19 at 3:45am
Originally posted by mozzy

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

This means that the sails are better every year.

Define better...
In absolute terms the sail may be getting better. But in relative terms, as other sail-makers improve their sails to, the new sails aren't going to be any better at winning races relatively, than last years...

On one way of thinking the more controlled multi vendor one designs have the worst of both worlds, since there's enough change to escalate costs and give a constant need to update gear, but not enough change to actually improve what the boats are like to sail in any meaningful way.

All this proves though, is that every way of managing classes and class rules has pros and cons, and they are simply different, not better or worse.

Edited by JimC - 04 Jan 19 at 3:47am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 19 at 8:36am
Each to our own?
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 19 at 10:19am
That about sums it up  Thumbs Up 
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 19 at 11:04am
Classes and builders will only push the envelope so much, they have to think of their futures.
Get a group together at your club, say 6 and negotiate for sails etc.
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