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A new class of dinghy?

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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 6:23pm
The production process and the materials are all tied together, one defines the other. To reduce cost you have to consider the two together. It is no good having a low cost material if the process is expensive . I can't see any breakthrough in materials around the corner either so don't hold your breath.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 6:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 7:05pm
You beat me to it David Y. 

I was thinking exactly the same and not in jest. In terms of construction and materials this thread seems to be going counter to current thoughts.  

Possibly the more knowledgeable will tell me that 3D printing and modern fibres can be done with low environmental impact.  

Simpleton that I am strip wood and glue moulding seem a pretty good compromise to me.

  

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 9:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Originally posted by davidyacht

The problem with Laser is that they have increased the retail price to a point that they we have lost the benefits of their volume production.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Originally posted by davidyacht

The problem with Laser is that they have increased the retail price to a point that they we have lost the benefits of their volume production.

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What 'we' benefit from Laser's volumes is being able to buy a used boat with very attractive annual costs in terms of depreciaton, cheap replica sails, insurance etc.
It may look mediocre value for the lump of plastic and bits of overweight metal, but it's the IP and 'content' that adds the value. You could buy nicer hardware for similar money, but that's like buying some obscure mobile phone and finding that there are no apps for it. You buy the whole package. Boat, CA, events, racing, wider society of people owning the damned things.
You can buy a slightly used ex-worlds Laser for about 5k, race it for a couple of years and sell it for 3k. That's value at the top end of OD racing,compared to buying an Icon or Asbo and seeing the thick end of 10k evaporate in a couple of years.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 10:06pm
So 20 a week depreciation? On average I probably go racing 26 times a year so that's 40 each for a days racing? It doesn't really matter if its a dev class or an SMOD, new boats depreciate faster than cars but that's the price we pay for our fun. The way I deal with it is to choose a boat and keep it for several years, the last boat I bought I've had for two years (actually that's not true, the last boat I bought was I bought a Supernova but I didn't get on with it so sold it again). That paradigm is no good if I want to win at National level but fine to get good racing at club and regional events. I guess what I am saying is that, unless you want to win at a high level you pick your budget and cut your sailcloth accordingly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 6:26am
My Mirror is 50 years old and until last year had always been stored outside, been at my club almost from day one, it's been painted 8 times, well that's how many layers I counted when I painted it last year, only to change colour from blue to red, perhaps wood is only viable environmentally friendly material, hot or cold moulding will give virtually any shape.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 11:59am
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by JimC

Its not very hard to conceive a machine that uses mechanical means to lay up a network of fibres and 3d printing like deposition techniques to put down a matrix. Whether such a thing is practical and offers any advantages over say resin infusion is another matter. But historically advanced sailboat tech has been a spin off from aerospace at least since WW2, so that's going to be the place to go to look for new materials and techniques. If there's nothing on the horizon now there will be sooner or later.

Sounds like the kind of machine which lays the fibres for a carbon mast or a load-map sail.

realistically   at least in the interim / medium term   a long fibre composite being  ' 3 d  printed'  will be  achieved by  the long fibres being laid  as above  then 3d printing the  rest around it 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


]You can buy a slightly used ex-worlds Laser for about 5k, race it for a couple of years and sell it for 3k. That's value at the top end of OD racing,compared to buying an Icon or Asbo and seeing the thick end of 10k evaporate in a couple of years.


And you could buy a decent lawn mower or golf clubs and spend the rest of your life in other mediocrity. Personally I'd rather blow the thirty odd grand I think the running total must be by now and actually enjoy sailing something pleasant, that's the beauty of this sport it's multi faceted, sailing a laser just removes one of the facets.

When I compare my sailing budget with what I pay the bloody tax man to keep us in conniving retarded politicians or my Mrs for new bathrooms, kitchens and daughter accessories, I need to spend more, there's a huge deficit.


Edited by iGRF - 03 Oct 18 at 12:10pm
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