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Wire in the blood
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Poll Question: Have or do you sail on a trapeze boat
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
7 [12.50%]
10 [17.86%]
5 [8.93%]
14 [25.00%]
18 [32.14%]
1 [1.79%]
1 [1.79%]
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wire in the blood
    Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 11:58am
You can't call RS700's or 29ers 'sensible', Fireballs remain in the dark ages should have transitioned to Assym ages ago, too late for them now and by all counts they aint good sea boats anyway.

The 505 has priced itself out of existence, the RS500 is a dog, no point even discussing the 49er, which leaves the 800 which is also twin wire, but a nice ride.

The V3000 is a lively 'sensible' boat but hasn't had a wide take up, the L3K is a good cheap entry but they're getting older and older and fewer and farer between.

I strikes me for 'humans' with jobs there really aint much out there that's not antediluvian. Hornet, Osprey being two that spring to mind OK if you've done the pole switching thing.

Edited by iGRF - 08 Jun 18 at 11:59am
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Posts: 310 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 12:02pm
Fireball very strong class, Osprey for bigger crews also doing OK. 
No single wire assy has been produced for adults of any use so stick with the symmetrical kite boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by iGRF

You can't call RS700's or 29ers 'sensible'
Sorry, thought you meant sensible, as in sensible numbers. I.e. not one or two, but a handful that would make it a decent race. 

To be honest, I find the 29er pretty sensible (as single wire asymmetric go). It's reluctance to pitch-pole made it great even in waves. Certainly less challenging that 12 footer and cherubs. 

But yeah, neither are 'easy'.

Originally posted by iGRF

The V3000 is a lively 'sensible' boat but hasn't had a wide take up, the L3K is a good cheap entry but they're getting older and older and fewer and farer between.
Aren't these the same boat, just renamed after being dropped  by laser? 

Originally posted by iGRF

I strikes me for 'humans' with jobs there really aint much out there that's not antediluvian. Hornet, Osprey being two that spring to mind OK if you've done the pole switching thing.
(Laser) 4000. Not sure there is any club level fleet racing going on. But they do have a few opens. Heavy, but far more stable than most of it's type. 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 1:03pm
V3k is 54kg and epoxy, L3k 79kg and polyester. That's a 25kg/32% weight loss, the Laser 3k is a nice boat so I'd think that makes the V3000 an even nicer one  Thumbs Up (and even almost light enough for Graeme).....

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Jun 18 at 1:08pm
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by iGRF



...*now with my new arsenal of actual sailing skills, then I remembered it wasn't the lightest tool in the box either. Then once again the top out to sea reach delivered such exquisite joy, it didn't matter where I was in the fleet or wether there were lots of the same boat to race against.

*I think you hit the nail on the head here. (think about that for a moment)

Unfortunately, most of the answers about why people don't trapeze or what they feel about it, will be from an established norm within a sailing culture that has been starved of one of the worlds great boats, due to it never making it out of New Zealand until recently.

Put the 3.7 in a bunch of teenagers on ANY pond and they will give you a different view when they hit middle age.

For me, I won't sail at all unless it is on a trapeze boat now. I have sailed a lot of boats.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 3:27pm
That's my trouble, always has been, my teenaged brain trapped in an ageing body.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


V3k is 54kg and epoxy, L3k 79kg and polyester. That's a 25kg/32% weight loss, the Laser 3k is a nice boat so I'd think that makes the V3000 an even nicer one  Thumbs Up (and even almost light enough for Graeme).....


One of the very few boats I've sailed that actually does plane upwind and that was the L3K with my old windsurfing chum as crew, what the V3000 would do I can only imagine, it's another lost jewel in the dinghy market, if I could have persuaded one of the daughters of darkness to risk getting her hair wet and mascara destroyed, this would have been the tool I'd have used..
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Originally posted by iGRF


...*now with my new arsenal of actual sailing skills, then I remembered it wasn't the lightest tool in the box either. Then once again the top out to sea reach delivered such exquisite joy, it didn't matter where I was in the fleet or wether there were lots of the same boat to race against.
*I think you hit the nail on the head here. (think about that for a moment)
Unfortunately, most of the answers about why people don't trapeze or what they feel about it, will be from an established norm within a sailing culture that has been starved of one of the worlds great boats, due to it never making it out of New Zealand until recently.
Put the 3.7 in a bunch of teenagers on ANY pond and they will give you a different view when they hit middle age.
For me, I won't sail at all unless it is on a trapeze boat now. I have sailed a lot of boats.


This is probably very true - we develop skills in certain ways, I think there’s an observable and sizeable skills uplift from ‘the kids’ who sailed 29ers compared to those in their 40s and 50s now with nowt but a brief dalliance with that sh*tfest Laser II for trapeze exposure.
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 18 at 9:44pm
It didn't bother me whether a boat has a trapeze or not. The RS700 was fantastic at my home club but as I started sailing more with my daughter than I did on my own it got relegated to 2nd boat and the running costs were just too high for the limited number of sails per year.
I chose the OK because I wanted a very quick boat to rig with minimal running cost, plus I wanted a boat that is nice to sail. I was slightly tempted to go back to the 600 but thought I'd try something else.
Once my daughter is bigger I wouldn't rule out an 800 or similar.


Edited by craiggo - 08 Jun 18 at 9:47pm
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NickA View Drop Down
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Posts: 783 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 18 at 12:12am
I love trapezing and hiking hurts; I never understand why people are so willing to put all that hiking effort in when you could go faster for less effort by wiring.  All this "oh we don't want the complication of a trapeze" is like saying "oh we don't want the complication of reclining seats in the car" .. and as for the "I want something to sail with the kids",  kids LOVE trapezing, it looks dead cool and it feels like flying.  What yoof wouldn't rather be out on the wire dangling one hand in the water than sitting on a thwart holding a jib sheet.  Far too many families in 2000s and not enough in 29ers, 3000s and RS500s IMHO.  

Shame in a way that I moved from crewing a Javelin to helming one; keep wondering about sticking a second wire on it for fun (there is power enough)  .... but I still have my V3000 for when there's no crew, and yes, it's a rocket.  I sail it off 975 to stop me winning everything and in the right wind conditions am up with the RS400s.  It is not an ideal single hander though - too many sheets and too much power in F5 or more;  the only way to de-power on the fly is to sheet out the main, which closes the slot with the overlapping roachy jib and slows it right down, or pinch like mad, which slows it down even more.   Now, chop the jib down to 1.6sqm and fit a self tacker and it would be different, that and/or a Swift Solo style simultaneous main & jib sheeting system!!

Meanwhile back on the wire for the Osprey Nationals at Weymouth in August; THAT should be fun :-) :-)
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