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New Olympic events. |
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423zero 
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Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
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 Topic: New Olympic events.Posted: 19 May 18 at 9:39am |
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Enterprise, well according to their website they are the largest class association in the world.
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Posted: 19 May 18 at 10:06am |
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1) Swimming has no way to create team events except a relay (same with athletics). 2) The relays in athletics are held at the end (not sure about swimming tbh), as a wrap up event. All of the athletes are there competing in their own right elsewhere, so it's a second chance of a medal. 3) Relays in athletics and swimming are traditional events established in their sports that you will see at athletics and swim meets. Sailing is blessed in that teams are already naturally a big part of our sport, not novelty teams put together at the end of an open for some fun, but proper teams that rely on teamwork. Teams where the total can be greater that the sum of it parts. The competition is much more significant than just two unrelated performances, it's all about how the team members interact and compliment each other's skills. What's more, with mixed teams it's a great example of how men and women can form inspiring teams together, complimenting each others strengths and weaknesses. The finn class put big emphasis on making sure there was a place for best big guys to still win medals and that the history of their event was critical. Well, there's now a good chance the best big guys wont win medals and there's no history of a 'mixed single hander team event' anywhere in our sport. It seems out of a need to be PC and a need to keep a certain class in the Olympics at all cost, we've ended up with a team event that no one does, or even clearly can define what it is yet.
Edited by mozzy - 19 May 18 at 10:20am |
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2547
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Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 19 May 18 at 11:32am |
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Because the general public will not pay to watch Sailing, the Olympics is the only time there is any cash up for grabs.
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423zero
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Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
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Posted: 20 May 18 at 9:22am |
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Not sure if this has already been posted, note "youthful" a bit "ageist"
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/205415/World-Sailing-embrace-youth
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 20 May 18 at 9:34am |
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But skiffs aren't popular, so why should they replace dinghies? I think you'll find there's only two skiffs in the 20 biggest nationals fleets in the UK, whereas in the USA the only "popular" skiff has the 23rd biggest nationals fleet. I think they are less popular than than in most other countries. The only place in the world where skiffs are really popular is one place where they are artificially favoured by gambling and liquor laws. Nor are they a successor to dinghies - the geneology of the skiff actually pre-dates that of the dinghy, and yet despite that headstart they are actually retreating in the only country in which they ever achieved anything like wide popularity. If one scraps the Laser, 470, Finn and RSX one has destroyed the last vestige of any common equipment between the typical club racer and the Games, as well as effectively given two fingers to the smaller countries who cannot just replace their fleets. Other countries often have lower population densities and fleets are scattered further apart, so they rely on grass-roots club sailing rather than Opens circuits and squads. That makes it very hard to build new classes (how many clubs can organise a full fleet of brand new boats to a new class?) and to build national fleets. Sports like cycling and rowing don't give two fingers to the club competitor by throwing all the kit they use out of the Games, so why should sailing? Should we effectively say to more popular sports such as cycling (or sailing in earlier times) that we know more than them? Shouldn't we actually listen to them and learn from them?
Edited by Chris 249 - 20 May 18 at 10:04am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 20 May 18 at 10:03am |
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Funnily enough, the only early record I can find of the Finn class reps considering weight was when one or two of them essentially said "if you're not a big guy, bad luck". The fact that until 1996 light sailors had no chance to win in single-handed dinghies didn't seem to worry the Finn class. It seems that the issue of allowing men of all weights to win in dinghies only became an issue for Finn sailors when the big guys came under threat. Of course, one could say that this hypocrisy is historic and therefore should be ignored - but that doesn't really work if the same class is going to stress history.
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 20 May 18 at 10:32am |
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The only place in the world where skiffs are really popular I think that the Olympic sailing classes should be something that the grassroots of the sport can identify with and can aspire to ... I don’t see much future in selecting the Solo, RS 200 and Merlin Rocket ... but it would be good to have classes that the best Solo, RS 200 and Merlin Rocket sailors can make the transition to. Skiffs are aspirational and the 49er platform seems to be a good one for men and ladies. My main point is that unlike cycling we seem to be over focused to “classes” rather than the event; what could be good is a test of the sailors skills on the racecourse and athleticism, and perhaps a family of physically demanding singlehanders, specifically designed for different weight bands and sexes would make the “event” of sailing more pure and understandable to those looking in. |
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Happily living in the past
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 20 May 18 at 11:09am |
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But changing classes can mean that the new classes aren't aspirational. Why should people aspire to change equipment to something that is often basically impossible for them to use? For example, one Moth world champ and silver medallist in Tornadoes who moved to Germany found that the geography and layout of the typical club meant that even an NS14 (the class that inspired the Tasar) was impractical to use. A 9er would have been utterly impossible. It's very hard to aspire to something that is impractical. Why should a good Solo sailor aspire to sailing a skiff? Surely Solo sailors aren't idiots. Surely they sail a Solo because it's the best class for them. Down here in the only place where skiffs are truly popular, they are pretty much seen as a breed just as cats or windsurfers are seen as a breed. If a good Sabre* sailor aspired to a skiff, they'd already be sailing one. They don't normally aspire to skiffs because skiffs are seen as a different breed of craft that they are not interested in, just as they are not interested in sailing an A Class cat or an RSX or going kitefoiling. I believe that Jim C has noted several times that good 29er sailors he knows end up sailing 200s; if skiffs were the aspirational type for them surely they'd be sailing 800s or 49ers. Similarly, the classic skiff classes are non-existent in the southern Australian states. It is impossible to believe that the sailors from these states are dull dogs who are not attracted to skiffs because they are poor sailors who have no aspirations. The reality is simply that they know that 12s, 16s, 18s and (to a large extent) 49ers are impractical where they live and therefore if they aspire to big, fast monohulls dinghies they move to 5-0s or Sharpies rather than skiffs. This pattern has existed for nigh on 90 years, so it's hardly a passing fad and therefore surely we should not be ignoring it. On the other hand, cycling is brilliant at creating aspirations, because people can relate to the legends and they can come experience almost the same challenges, albeit at a lower level. Almost any able-bodied person could go out and buy a bike faster than the ones that won gold in 2016 and ride it. The bike is designed to rigid restrictions that make it very slow (compared to bikes without such rules) but very practical and easy to use. After a few months of riding in the mornings or to work, they could take a package holiday and ride that bike on the same famous climbs that Froome won the Tour on. It's so popular that many non-cyclists complain about middle-aged men aspiring to be Lance or Froome. It seems that most people only aspire to what it reasonably practical and achievable, and that if we want to inspire them we must also let them know that they can do the same thing as their heroes - even if they don't do it as well. * a boat that fills the Solo slot in Australia Edited by Chris 249 - 20 May 18 at 11:33am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 20 May 18 at 12:17pm |
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I would suggest that skiff type dinghies, and I would include B14’s and I14’s are aspirational, as are 29ers, however I fully accept that they are unsuited for the waters that many club sailors use. However at my club many of the ageing Solo fleet and Yawl sailors had some kind of dalliance with much higher performance boats at a high level, be they I14’s 505s Fireballs, B14’s, Flying Dutchman, Melges etc. Etc, some with success, these were the challenging boats of their time and none of which are particularly conducive to sail on our estuary ... however we traveled to enjoy the craik.
If production skiffs had been around in the northern hemisphere in the boom times of the 60’s and 70’s I suspect that they would have far more traction. Frankly, in my earlier post I left the 49ers in, because there are bigger issues with regard to the other classes.
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Happily living in the past
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Oli
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Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
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Posted: 21 May 18 at 8:09am |
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Possibly I think we’re assuming too much it of what people will sail and what people could sail. If they are aspire to sail moths and 49ers and the like then they will go to where the action is, Olympians don’t train at their home club (the one they grew up at) do they? I only hear of palma and other such places being used. I own a bike but I don’t own a full carbon thing like chris hoy used, but it’s still a bike. If we want to be Olympians We should show off our sport as having to be athletic. The Olympics is not about the grassroots directly, but far more indirectly and we should treat it as such, firstly it’s a pay day for WS, then the sailors via sponsorship and funding, then trickle down to aspiring youth sailors, and then perhaps non sailors. But by that point the effect is minimal, how many newbies have joined your club recently due to seeing Giles win gold? I dot support the olympics because it’s good for grassroots, far from it, but if we are going to have it in the five ring circus then it should be difficult, exciting boats against top class athletes. In fact we could drop all the boats and just have the extreme foiling series boats, mixed teams, only one event but exciting to have a load of those short course racing around.
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