New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Another question, spinnakers , alt/assym/sym
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Another question, spinnakers , alt/assym/sym

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>
Author
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5035
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another question, spinnakers , alt/assym/sym
    Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 5:05pm
It's probably complete unfeasible, but has anyone tried a damgly pole style approach to spinnakers, I'm thinking as an alternative to a full on assym. Could not some form of spinnaker be fashioned that dead runs on a single hander. using a dangly style pole?

Right now I can't think why not, but no doubt the hive mind will find an obstacle.

Edited by iGRF - 14 Feb 18 at 5:05pm
Back to Top
fab100 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 788
Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 5:36pm
LMGTFY

Your favourite, the Miracle, describe something like that for novices here
 
But up-mast storage I think went out of favour from the complexity and horrible windage when not in use. It was largely superseded by on-boom flyaways, with one pole or two (checkout Mirrors and Merlins, another two of your favourites)

How often do you think you'll sail in insufficient breeze to make it not worth heating up your Farr-on-steroids? (and yes I get you may sometimes want to cheat the tide, I grew up sailing on an estuary) 

I've no idea how you fully automate a single-pole to switch from one gybe to the other, but twin poles give sail stability in that you could have both set during gybe. More cost, weight and complexity tho.

Also might be worth checking out the original Phil Morrison designed set-up for the RS200 kite that was originally designed to be used goose-winged too. The pole was pulled inwards and the halyard pulled further up the mast - but there was all sorts of witchcraft needed with the strings in the pole.

With no jib in the way, the foredeck is another place to store a pole when not in use

Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5035
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by fab100

IV]]How often do you think you'll sail in insufficient breeze to make it not worth heating up your Farr-on-steroids?


Farr to often, we sail triangle sausage and all to often one leg of the triangle won't support a kite, so conventional kite boats usually win out, Hornet, Merlin, we used to have to go some in the Alto and we used the swinging pole regularly.

But I was also thinking about small pond use and the benefits of a single handed sym kite solution.

As you know, it's quite a chore single handing an assym kite, so trying to semi automate a sym kite for single handed use would have to have something like this.
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1757
Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 9:21pm
I'd much rather an asymmetric spinnaker on a singlehander, far less string to worry about.

Graduate 2928
OK 2071
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1392
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 10:18pm
Having used both, sum briefly and assy pretty frequently I don't think I'd like to try a sym kit sailing solo. It's the poles that require two hands. I'm currently devising an assy system for the Blaze, it has to be removable and with no holes so it's tricky (at least the Farr allows the various gubbins to be built into the hull with no weight penalty). I'm using an Omega kite (circa 15M2) and currently trying to source a chute from a cat to fit to my short, fixed pole as my home made chute was not strong enough. Getting it up is not a problem but dousing it is more troublesome (ooh-er-missus) and I tried a bag system first which was pretty much impossible singlehanded.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Supernova 395 "dolly the sheep" (now sold but considering a second (mk3) Blaze as her replacement)
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1913
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 10:54pm
I briefly dreamt about sticking a sym on a solo, then further thought reminded me it would be far simpler just go sailing in a miracle without tha crew. I enjoyed a 200 singlehanded, Id imagine a miracle, maybe with some spiros or dual poles, could be equally good fun
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5631
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 7:55am
Ultimately I think its a solution looking for a problem. The right fix for a small pond is no kite at all, because the losses hoisting and dropping a kite on short legs, plus the difficulties of rapidly and radically shifting winds mean there's no way it will do any good.

In a boat with any kind of performance the sprit kite is better since you can have a far larger rag for the same difficulty in handling, and angles with a big rag will always beat running with a pocket handkerchief. The thing about dead runs is that the diminishing returns factor of apparent wind from behind means extra rag will always have very limited benefit.

In the Cherubs we learned very very early that there were just about no conditions where a pole kite had any advantages.

Edited by JimC - 15 Feb 18 at 7:57am
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1913
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 8:44am
Originally posted by JimC

Ultimately I think its a solution looking for a problem.  

I think it depends of your rationale.  For ultimate performance I totally agree- especially about the bit small lakes and hoist and drop times... I know when I was a kid we could get away without flying the kite on a 420 at the winter pond without losing too much, and probably gaining a place or two if someone in front screwed up.  

However if you are doing it purely for sh*ts and giggles, then why not?  There is something quite satisfying, and aesthetically pleasing, about a nicely set symmetric kite.  And to do it singlehanded, be that on a Cadet, Fireball or a 40ft cruiser, well, it's still an achievement. 
Back to Top
Cirrus View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Oct 15
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 361
Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 9:46am
KISS surely more suitable ?
Back to Top
mozzy View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 16 Feb 12
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 582
Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 9:58am
There is no reason why you couldn't do it. 

Probably will just end up with a mess of extra ropes and poles which looks ugly and functions sporadically. When up symmetrical kites take a lot of attention to fly well, all of which will detract from steering, balancing the boat and trimming the main. 

Turnturtle is correct, it can be satisfying and is an achievement. But make no mistake; there is nothing more amateur looking than a boat wrestling with a flogging kite whilst all other fundamentals are ignored, then getting it set, accelerating a fraction of a knot before immediately running out of water and starting the struggle to get the thing back in the boat again. 

If I had to choose a kite for a single handed it would definitely be a single line launch and retrieve asymmetric... even then I think it's a bit of distraction. 


Edited by mozzy - 15 Feb 18 at 10:00am
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy