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Another question, spinnakers , alt/assym/sym

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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Cirrus

KISS surely more suitable ?

for the boat in question, for racing purposes.... for sure.

for dicking around at the beach and enjoying retirement... bugger it, it would be fun.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 10:41am
Well it would probably end up as a sort of hybrid kite wouldn't it? The general idea obviously is the ultimate capability of a dangle pole to be swung out at right angles to cope with dead runs in less than hot corner conditions which I fear are frequent, as to the effectiveness. If week after week you get overtaken on a deep reach or run, by Miracle mums busy with pink wrapping ready to parcel up and hand you your ass time and again you'll consider alternative firing solutions.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 10:43am
Twin poles with a pump system.
Your problem is setting the pole either side of the fore stay. I am not convinced a dangly pole would always find its way to the right side of the fore stay. Easier on a Miracle when you are loading the guy onto the pole "manually" and switching the guy by hand. I assume you dont want to have to walk forward to do that. 
Other issue with a dangly pole for a spinnaker, a spinny pole is much longer than a jib stick! You may have a bit of an issue with deck clearence.

Twin pole maybe with a pump system to deploy the pole (if you could overcome friction)

Thinking about it, I think a sym kite has more chance of filling on the inside of the fore stay during a gybe to, A sym kite moves gybe to gybe rather than flips like an asym

You also may need to think about mast inversion and how that effects the main to

I have seen plenty of Miracles single handed so is possible

J


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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 11:03am
Sail with a flat assy instead, rolled from a fixed bowsprit with the dangly pole permanently attached. Guess you'd need to run the forestay to there, too. Drop the whole thing rolled onto the boat upwind if long beats, accept the windage if doing very short legs. Like on a jib, the pole would give shape to the flat kite to leeward on a reach, and would goosewing happily to windward to run down those pesky Miracles.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Rupert

Sail with a flat assy instead, rolled from a fixed bowsprit with the dangly pole permanently attached. Guess you'd need to run the forestay to there, too. Drop the whole thing rolled onto the boat upwind if long beats, accept the windage if doing very short legs. Like on a jib, the pole would give shape to the flat kite to leeward on a reach, and would goosewing happily to windward to run down those pesky Miracles.


That sounds pretty much where I'm headed if I want to do this.. I was thinking dangly permanently attached and I also thought I might have to lower the forestay to boom height like the EPS, OK then the risk is mast inversion, but really? Would it invert it's got shrouds up there and provided I didn't go for mast head kite I could get away with it couldn't I?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 11:18am
I agree with TT, if wining is a consideration then any kite benefits from long legs and steady wind. On a small lake, in a singlehander a unarig boat will sail to it's PN more consistently than an assy boat. The workload WRT shifts and other boats is much higher inland and the distraction of launching and recovering a kite must impact on that. Boatspeed gains are limited too by short legs and time lost kite handling. 

But, for 'dicking around' on the beach and in Holyhead Bay an assy (and, maybe, a trapeze) will be great fun on the Blaze


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 15 Feb 18 at 11:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 11:27am
They should have fitted that Blaze with a kite years ago, but they were always too busy considering their next out of time dance routine to spot it and along came the RS100.

So to ground the discussion a bit, this set up is primarily for long courses at sea, which I already know without sailing it I'm going to get toasted downwind without a suitable solution. The bit about Miracles is a blind they don't come on the sea, something about their hair getting tangled and matted with salt, my problem on the sea will be Contenders and the only weapon you can use to fillet Contenders is a kite.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 11:34am
If racing won't adding a kite break class rules? Didn't you just have a thread moaning about boats handicap racing when 'out of class'?

And if you ask the club to give you an experimental number, won't that negate any gain?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 11:37am
Originally posted by iGRF

 
OK then the risk is mast inversion, but really? Would it invert it's got shrouds up there and provided I didn't go for mast head kite I could get away with it couldn't I?

The inversion comes from the pressure of the kite transferring to the mast through the pole, not at the sheath 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 11:45am
Originally posted by mozzy

If racing won't adding a kite break class rules? Didn't you just have a thread moaning about boats handicap racing when 'out of class'?
And if you ask the club to give you an experimental number, won't that negate any gain?
No, I had a thread about brand new down to weight boats pretending to be old munters in order to gain competitive advantage and being permitted to because they are old munters by a bunch of b**tards who want to 'protect' their ancient class system.

I'm sailing something with a decidedly negative yardstick, I ran it through my programme and it came out 1062 yet the advisory is 1039. The class rules state you can fit a kite, but you can't use it racing each other in class events, nothing said about using it to race Lasers & Contenders, who will without a shadow of doubt penalise it if it gets even close.

I don't actually give a rats arse about handicap results, my greatest joy is to win over the water, 1st back to the beach and that ain't going to happen with this little boat without some help and ingenuity. (Or an engine) ;-)


Edited by iGRF - 15 Feb 18 at 11:46am
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