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Another question, spinnakers , alt/assym/sym |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
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Topic: Another question, spinnakers , alt/assym/sym Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 5:05pm |
It's probably complete unfeasible, but has anyone tried a damgly pole style approach to spinnakers, I'm thinking as an alternative to a full on assym. Could not some form of spinnaker be fashioned that dead runs on a single hander. using a dangly style pole?
Right now I can't think why not, but no doubt the hive mind will find an obstacle. Edited by iGRF - 14 Feb 18 at 5:05pm |
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fab100
Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 5:36pm |
LMGTFY
Your favourite, the Miracle, describe something like that for novices here But up-mast storage I think went out of favour from the complexity and horrible windage when not in use. It was largely superseded by on-boom flyaways, with one pole or two (checkout Mirrors and Merlins, another two of your favourites) How often do you think you'll sail in insufficient breeze to make it not worth heating up your Farr-on-steroids? (and yes I get you may sometimes want to cheat the tide, I grew up sailing on an estuary) I've no idea how you fully automate a single-pole to switch from one gybe to the other, but twin poles give sail stability in that you could have both set during gybe. More cost, weight and complexity tho. Also might be worth checking out the original Phil Morrison designed set-up for the RS200 kite that was originally designed to be used goose-winged too. The pole was pulled inwards and the halyard pulled further up the mast - but there was all sorts of witchcraft needed with the strings in the pole. With no jib in the way, the foredeck is another place to store a pole when not in use |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 8:37pm |
Farr to often, we sail triangle sausage and all to often one leg of the triangle won't support a kite, so conventional kite boats usually win out, Hornet, Merlin, we used to have to go some in the Alto and we used the swinging pole regularly. But I was also thinking about small pond use and the benefits of a single handed sym kite solution. As you know, it's quite a chore single handing an assym kite, so trying to semi automate a sym kite for single handed use would have to have something like this. |
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craiggo
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 9:21pm |
I'd much rather an asymmetric spinnaker on a singlehander, far less string to worry about.
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OK 2129
RS200 411 |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 10:18pm |
Having used both, sum briefly and assy pretty frequently I don't think I'd like to try a sym kit sailing solo. It's the poles that require two hands. I'm currently devising an assy system for the Blaze, it has to be removable and with no holes so it's tricky (at least the Farr allows the various gubbins to be built into the hull with no weight penalty). I'm using an Omega kite (circa 15M2) and currently trying to source a chute from a cat to fit to my short, fixed pole as my home made chute was not strong enough. Getting it up is not a problem but dousing it is more troublesome (ooh-er-missus) and I tried a bag system first which was pretty much impossible singlehanded.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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turnturtle
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 18 at 10:54pm |
I briefly dreamt about sticking a sym on a solo, then further thought reminded me it would be far simpler just go sailing in a miracle without tha crew. I enjoyed a 200 singlehanded, I’d imagine a miracle, maybe with some spiros or dual poles, could be equally good fun
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 7:55am |
Ultimately I think its a solution looking for a problem. The right fix for a small pond is no kite at all, because the losses hoisting and dropping a kite on short legs, plus the difficulties of rapidly and radically shifting winds mean there's no way it will do any good.
In a boat with any kind of performance the sprit kite is better since you can have a far larger rag for the same difficulty in handling, and angles with a big rag will always beat running with a pocket handkerchief. The thing about dead runs is that the diminishing returns factor of apparent wind from behind means extra rag will always have very limited benefit. In the Cherubs we learned very very early that there were just about no conditions where a pole kite had any advantages. Edited by JimC - 15 Feb 18 at 7:57am |
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turnturtle
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 8:44am |
I think it depends of your rationale. For ultimate performance I totally agree- especially about the bit small lakes and hoist and drop times... I know when I was a kid we could get away without flying the kite on a 420 at the winter pond without losing too much, and probably gaining a place or two if someone in front screwed up. However if you are doing it purely for sh*ts and giggles, then why not? There is something quite satisfying, and aesthetically pleasing, about a nicely set symmetric kite. And to do it singlehanded, be that on a Cadet, Fireball or a 40ft cruiser, well, it's still an achievement.
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Cirrus
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 9:46am |
KISS surely more suitable ?
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Feb 18 at 9:58am |
There is no reason why you couldn't do it.
Probably will just end up with a mess of extra ropes and poles which looks ugly and functions sporadically. When up symmetrical kites take a lot of attention to fly well, all of which will detract from steering, balancing the boat and trimming the main. Turnturtle is correct, it can be satisfying and is an achievement. But make no mistake; there is nothing more amateur looking than a boat wrestling with a flogging kite whilst all other fundamentals are ignored, then getting it set, accelerating a fraction of a knot before immediately running out of water and starting the struggle to get the thing back in the boat again. If I had to choose a kite for a single handed it would definitely be a single line launch and retrieve asymmetric... even then I think it's a bit of distraction.
Edited by mozzy - 15 Feb 18 at 10:00am |
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