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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dynamic Courses
    Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 5:03pm

Thinking of the data SailRacer has, could it be used to make things easier for PROs?. 
With the SailRacer data surely it's a step away to create a course evaluation tool, a google maps add-in type thing. You drop buoys and state their rounding on a map (like RaceQs), enter the wind speed and direction and the app will tell you where the boats will be at target finish time. This would be especially handy when you can only shorten the course at the race box or committee boat, or in pursuit races where you want the fleet on a reach at the finish (to be honest, with the VMG for leg for class for wind speed data that SR has, this could be done in spreadsheet).  
With all the data SR has, it could even tell you which class the course favours, so the PRO can then play around until the course is relatively neutral. Instead of dynamic handicaps, we could have dynamic courses. 
Which course do you prefer in the classes you've sailed and why? Which course do you view as 'fair'?



Edited by mozzy - 02 Jan 18 at 5:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 5:33pm
To my mind the best thing is to ring the changes as much as possible with courses, different shapes, different angles, lots of reaching, lots of w/l legs, mix 'em all up. I'm quite sure its impossible for there to be a course that is equally advantageous for every boat, so give everyone as much variety as possible. Plus if there's plenty of variety between races, there's maybe less pressure to have 17 different legs in every individual race...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 5:34pm
I sail on a small lake. Some races every leg has every point of sail. Now calculate...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 6:25pm
And what about the poor RO? When is he/she expected to find time check out all these courses only then to find that the wind has done a 180 degree about face?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 6:31pm
+1 Rupert
My club also has a specific list, first leg is always a beat, first mark always to Port, got to have a Run and a Reach, rest of course I go for a course to suit Laser, my choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 7:42pm
If it's a shifty enough that you can't predict a beat, then i'll admit it's not really worth while. But then aren't you just randomly selecting marks anyway? Can't be any worse...

Saying that, when I sailed a very shifty club I used to set a beat and a couple of fetches that could conceivably become beats. Of course you'd still get the odd day where nothing would go to plan. 

It's not any extra work for the RO, they have to set a course anyway, and they could overide it / not use the app / ignore it. I was envisaging the club would already have the marks input, so the PRO just selects them in the order they choose. App would then tell them where the lead boat will be after X amount of time and which classes the course favours so they can then amend as they see fit. 

Two frequent situations arise at my club (and a lot of none-racing members who do duties). 
1) Pursuit race ends on a long beat. In an ideal world the start of a pursuit would be beating and running dominated and the end reaching to make life easier for the RO whilst still having a selection of legs. 

2) Races passes the box at 45 minutes, then again a 1:30... race is either too long or too short. 

If SailRacer can analyse to with confidence to know classes VMG for a leg of a specific angle, for a given wind strength, then it's the same maths to do this?


Edited by mozzy - 02 Jan 18 at 7:53pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 7:55pm
Surely race officers do these things using human brain 1.0?

As for finishing on a reach or beat, a small wind strength change will bugger this up, and CFS means there will be boats on most legs of the course anyway.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Topper 44496, Minisail 3131, Minisail 3446
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 9:01pm
Mozzy,
How can you randomly select marks ?
We have 7 buoys in fixed positions, then the start buoys which are moved to suit wind direction.
First leg is a beat, then a turn to port, so next mark will also be port. in course setting rules you also have to have, a run, a reach, a gybe and a tack, no stipulation to use every mark, our longest leg is from number 1 buoy to number 4, I will always try to include this.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by 423zero

How can you randomly select marks ?

Well, like I wrote, if it's too shifty to predict a beat...
Originally posted by mozzy

If it's a shifty enough that you can't predict a beat, then i'll admit it's not really worth while. But then aren't you just randomly selecting marks anyway?

423zero, I was replying to this:
Originally posted by Rupert

I sail on a small lake. Some races every leg has every point of sail. Now calculate...

If you don't know which leg will be what, then surely all you're doing is randomly selecting a series of marks. 

Now, obviously, if your club has a set course, then fine, or if your club is such a small lake that you can never have the fleet a few miles away at the desired finish time, or spread out over a mile long beat, then no i wouldn't imagine this will solve any problems you have. 




Edited by mozzy - 02 Jan 18 at 9:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 18 at 9:42pm
Well, we the our best to set a course where there will be a beat somewhere, somewhen. Might change each lap, might be that one lap you can fly the kite all the way round, the next every leg is a fetch, and we are simply unlucky with the shifts. If the wind is as steady as you suggest on these long legs of yours, you might be able to tweak things so the Fireball can carry it's kite when the 505 can't one leg, then broaden it for the next so the Fireball is a little underpowered by the 505 flying along. Then announce the winner based on which boat had the better vmg. I think there will be many sailors somewhat bemused by the results.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Topper 44496, Minisail 3131, Minisail 3446
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