Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
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Kicker angle |
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H2
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
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Topic: Kicker angle Posted: 27 Nov 17 at 9:50am |
Thanks Colin - rams and lowers not allowed
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H2
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Nov 17 at 9:52am |
Yes was planning to try this next!
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Ian99
Posting king Joined: 07 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 138 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 11:02am |
Given how new the class is, I'd go in with proposing a rule change to allow fixed lower shrouds.
It sounds like the rig needs them, all options of kicker will still bend the mast at the gooseneck if it's not supported or the mast made stiffer. |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 11:26am |
I would find it very hard to design a modern style gust responsive rig with no gooseneck level control. I think for a boat with such restrictions I'd have to be thinking about a very expensive custom mast which was heavily beefed up at least to the spreaders in order that there wasn't mast bend where its not wanted. As I understand things as soon as you start using the spreaders to push the mid mast back then the gust response goes to hell, and the boat gets a lot less pleasant to sail. With my IC I found that if I put the spreaders forward to add power, the resulting handling characteristics deteriorated to such an extent that it was faster to put the spreaders back and accept the reduced power.
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 12:40pm |
Yes even with something as low tech as the 2000, I reached the point of catastrophic boat speed and handling loss when I went just that little bit too far. At neutral and a tiny bit forward all OK. One hole more and it was horrible).
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zippyRN
Far too distracted from work Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 12:45pm |
you could do that with carbon or with an internal sleeve , i'm not sure how far up the mast the sleeves that were put into proctor Ds were pre D+ section went
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Presuming Ed
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 2:04pm |
Assuming the OP sails a Hadron H2, isn’t it a little odd that rig issues like this weren’t sorted at prototype stage?
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 2:20pm |
I haven't yet sailed this boat, but I'd be very wary of boatpark advice like that.
Is it not, what do you call it 'hog stepped', as stupid a term as ever there were, the mast on the deck and the kicker appears to be lead lower anyway. The Boom isn't exactly half way up the mast either, so I can't see any liklihood of massive distortion of the lower half of the sail. Plus, again, I don't know any of this, but it's been built recently so I'd imagine the luff curve of the sail is matched to perform with a bent mast and very often that mast bend assists in gust response if any of the lessons we've learned in windsurfing have jumped the gap which they must have by now. So until you hear from some of those connected with it's design and production I'd hesitate in a) criticism and b) adding on crap that isn't needed like lowers, they get in the bloody way of everything. Edited by iGRF - 28 Nov 17 at 4:11pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 2:22pm |
Well, not everyone has the same ideas about what's good in rigs. There are loads of classes with what I would regard as inadequate lower mast control and excessive low down mast bend that their owners are perfect satisfied with sailing.
Edited by JimC - 28 Nov 17 at 2:31pm |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 2:42pm |
It all depends on what you've learnt sail controls to do. In all the boats I've sailed the kicker has been used to depower the sail and the main sheet has been used to hold leech tension. I a couple of classes you've got a traveller to hold the same leech tension off centre too. Up wind if the boom is off the centre line I really want the sail depowered, so I'm very rarely looking for a tighter leech in a situation where I can't achieve it with more main.
Additionally, with a jib, plus a kite, when the main is off centre I actually want the boom to lift to create more twist as the bottom of the sail needs to be sheeted significantly closer than the top (especially true in the 200 where you have a significant amount of main with no spinnaker to prebend the wind) . I can see a situation when close reaching in a single sail boat where you'd want more power with the boom out past the extent of the traveller (where you can do the same with main tension).
Edited by mozzy - 28 Nov 17 at 2:57pm |
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