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Put these factors in order .... |
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Topic: Put these factors in order .... Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 9:27am |
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.... when trying to win a championship ... Seems there are differences of opinion' this is my view ... 1. Strategy (boat on fleet/weather patterns) Rick Edited by Guest#260 |
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Bumble
Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Nov 05 Location: Taiwan Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 9:59am | |
OOOwww, you know how to ask a good question. Id like to give a straight 1234 but some of them are too inter-related. For me weight (no7) is part of boat speed(5), just another factor. Starting (no3) is part of tactics (no2), but a very important part. Boat handling gives speed, and overall strategy dictate you tactics.
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Bumble
Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Nov 05 Location: Taiwan Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 10:01am | |
So what Im trying to say is for me.... there is only speed and tactics... and they are equally important.
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 10:03am | |
depends on the boat a bit, but I think putting boat handling below rules and boat speed (especially rules) is a bit suprising. Few people win Champs who fall over all the time!
1. Strategy (boat on fleet/weather patterns) 2. Boat Handling 3. Tactics (boat on boat/shifts) 4. Starting 5. Boat Speed (inc. weight of boat, tuning of rig) 6. Rules 7. Correct Weight (right crew weight for class) For the sort of performance boat small fleet sailing I do I'd put it like this. Of course a lot depends how far away from the optimum you are. Cherubs are suprisingly tolerant of varied crew weights, but put two 20 stone Star Crews in one and I suspect it wouldn't much matter how much better their strategy and tactics were than the rest of the fleet. |
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Black no sugar
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 04 Location: Somewhere between Brighton and Lancing Online Status: Offline Posts: 3941 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 10:08am | |
Don't you think that Strategy, Tactics and even Starting cannot be achieved if you don't know the Rules?
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 10:30am | |
I don't think that was the consensus amongst the Musto sailors ... I think most felt that it was a boat speed advantage.
I think those elements of the sport are easier to practice on a training course ... how do you practice race strategy on a weekend course... those are the things you learn over time on the race course Rick Edited by Guest#260 |
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 10:41am | |
I guess you have to assume a certain level of proficiency if we are considering these elements in the context of trying to win a championships ... We are in the same ball park here ... Rick Edited by Guest#260 |
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 10:59am | |
I think if you assume the folllowing...
1, Your boat speed advantage will only ever be small
2, The conditions will be variable (so if you are slightly heavy / light it will average out)
3, Starting - in a good fleet, if you cannot start you are stuffed, but as Rick said that he's assuming there is a certain level of skill assumed, I assume starting will be OK
I rate it thus:
1, Strategy / Rules / Boat Handling / Tactics (boat on boat/shifts) - all these are so interrelated; To have a Strategy, you have to have the rules knowledge to implement it, to be able to use the rules you need to have the boat handling to know you can push the rules and make sure everything you do will work and you can put the boat exactly where you want it, when you want it. To be good at tacktics in a big fleet you need the rules knowledge etc.
5, Boatspeed - always gets you out of trouble - including a bad start
6, Starting (you afterall have assumed there is a good level of skill anyway - a good start will not win the race)
7, Crew shape.
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 11:09am | |
Ah - so our sport is complexed and all the issues are inter-related so we need to be good at everything. Of course true. But I guess the bottom line seems to be better to be a good sailor than have the best boat. Of couse to be both is the optimum ... Rick |
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 05 at 11:13am | |
True, but in most classes, few win championships by falling over less than the other top 5 boats either. To me, good boat handling is just a qualification for it being worth turning up to a championship in the first place. I will admit to not generally having sailed classes where the boathandling is especially difficult, so I may be biased in that answer. In most of the classes I've sailed, starting is absolutely critical. You won't ever recover from a bad start. Nor will you come out of the critical first five minutes after the start in clear air without boatspeed at least as good as the boats around you. Thereafter, it's mostly tactics. "Heads out of the boat" as a frequent keelboat class champion always advises. Generally there isn't much "strategy" on championship courses. If there is a clear and predictable advantage to one side of the course, the race officer isn't doing his job properly (or the venue is unsuitable). However for events like Cowes Week, strategy is critical.
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