J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
List classes of boat for sale |
Laser mainsheet -- cleat or no cleat? |
Post Reply | Page <12345 6> |
Author | ||
laser193713
Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Laser mainsheet -- cleat or no cleat? Posted: 11 Jul 17 at 10:01am |
|
Oh, and just for the record. Here is our Ben winning his most famous gold medal WITHOUT cleats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twM3ZBS1irA
|
||
laser193713
Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 17 at 9:58am | |
So how did you flick the sheet through the gybe to stop it hooking the transom? Or were you doing the seriously old school tiller extension hook to clear it? |
||
maxibuddah
Really should get out more Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 8:39pm | |
The good old kicker on a laser. The side cleats were useful then. Cleat it in tight, press your for against the mainsheet between boom and block on the centreboard case and you'll bend the boom allowing you to easily take up the slack in the kicker, ultra tight. I only ever used them occasionally but always kept them on just in case. Centre jammers seem a little overkill on a laser where the sheet loads are light but essential on a Finn. I did add one to my phantom in the end but only to use on the sea in places like Lee on Solent where you had a two mile beat on one track. No wind shifts or gusts to worry about. Cleat it and concentrate on steering through the waves
|
||
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
|
||
Wiclif
Groupie Joined: 04 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 79 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 6:34pm | |
To elaborate on my comments yesterday.
The "help" when gybing comes when the mainsheet stays where you have set it and not sliding out in a moment of panic, causing the inevitable death roll. And I did have a reputation, albeit many years ago now, for staying upright in the gybes. The fact that the mainsheet cleat drops as you move aft can be considered a good idea. There are two points here. One is that mainsheet action is more frequent on a reqch so having the cleat set at the correct height for beating means that it is out of the way for reaching but still totally usable for gybing. The second point is that boats are shallower at the back than amidships so that on a boat where the cleat is fixed to the top of the centreboard casing, it means that the cleat effectively becomes higher as you move aft - not a good idea. In the past I have intentionally raised the forward end of the centre jammer so that this does not happen. |
||
transient
Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 2:09pm | |
Careful Mr Holman, folk might start to advocate using them as well |
||
transient
Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 1:53pm | |
In every field of expertise there are exceptions, geniuses that buck the trend of best practice.... Fact and long may it continue. Since there are no geniuses posting regularly on this forum I reckon it's reasonable to suggest what most experts see as best practice, not what's most comfortable for old bones. I have cleats on my two hander, as I said before I have used them when I roll fags half way through a race or take my splash top off between races. Those kinds of moment aren't what we're talking about though are they? My cleats were factory fitted, if they weren't I wouldn't fit them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with cleating for comfort or convenience and I'm sincere about that but lets be honest about the reasons why we do it. For the vast majority of posters here using the cleat while sailing a Laser will hamper improvement of technique........if folk aren't interested in improving technique then that's absolutely fine.
My technique is shyte by the way but I still live in hope. Edited by transient - 10 Jul 17 at 4:28pm |
||
Daniel Holman
Really should get out more Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 1:21pm | |
Note also old school vang, which I think he used throughout his career.
What a lad! |
||
furtive
Posting king Joined: 30 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 188 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 1:15pm | |
While most at the top level don't use deck cleats, Robert Scheidt famously does (did), and he seemed to do pretty well...
|
||
Daniel Holman
Really should get out more Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 1:13pm | |
Ainslie and schiedt to name but a few used cleats their entire laser careers. Maybe they were so good they didn't need to improve!! I know scheidt used them on the exit of his (incredible) tacks. I personally only used them in case I needed a spare hand round the racetrack or when having a drink or snack between races. There are other ways to control main like a pull out stopper knot. Technique aside, I suspect that these guys had them t some extent because on standard supplied boats at games or worlds, cleats are fitted as standard so one should train as one races, ie become accustomed and grow to love having a harken 150 camcleat stuck firmly in your arse in light airs :-) |
||
transient
Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 1:03pm | |
laser193713,
I suspect the reason there are so many advocates for Laser mainsheet jammers or cleats on this forum is more a concession to age and comfort. Fair enough, they're good reasons and like me the forum is getting older. No doubt there will come a time in the not too distant future when I'll want cleats as well.
I'm no expert on Lasers, I used to have one didn't like it but I have read loads of stuff on sailing lasers over the years and I can think of no technique, at any point of sail that lends itself to jammers or cleats. The time it takes to adjust sail controls can be handled by holding the mainsheet in the tiller hand. If you're fit, able and still have aspirations of improving (which is what this forum used to be about) don't bother with cleats. Edited by transient - 10 Jul 17 at 1:12pm |
||
Post Reply | Page <12345 6> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |