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RS400 Upgrades |
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laser193713
Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
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Topic: RS400 Upgrades Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 6:19pm |
Just in the process of buying a 400 and wondering what mods have been done over the years to the boat. I saw talk of a single line kite launch system rather than the separate pole outhaul system etc.
I can't seem to find a good guide of things to change on a basically stock boat to make it the best it can be. Other things I have heard are about new centreboards being better and the new rudders being better also. How do the new style sails compare to the old ones in terms of performance, lifetime etc. What else should I know?
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ClubRacer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 7:15pm |
I swear by my single line hoist and others swear by their 2 line hoist. I think both have they're uses.
I originally was sailing with non-regular crews so telling them to pull the blue rope was easier than telling them to pull this 5mm blue rope before pulling the 4mm blue rope etc. If you do go down the single line route the biggest advice i can give is use 5mm d12 for the tack line and 4mm anything as the kite halyard. this I've found is the perfect balance of friction to ensure both kite and pole go out equally. Continuous kicker/downhaul is a must if you plan on any serious racing. The other unique upgrades I've got is; Having the kite halyard run around the back of the boat, but to ensure I Don't stand on it/trip over it the blocks are tied to around 150mm of string which are tied to the toe strap mounting points, This allows for the halyard to run tightly round the central mainsheet column and inside the drainage well without chafing or fouling anything The wing wangs (the lines that control the sideways movement of the pole) have a 6mm bobble on them then a bowline with a piece of flexible air hose round it. This is then pulled from forward (in front of the mast step) with the pole across to the side and tied tightly. This allows the bobble to hit the bowline knot and stand the handle in the air when the pole is set for the opposite side. Meaning when you gybe rather than trying to pick up the handle or get a grip of it you can just stick you're hand/arm into the hole of the hose and begin to pull without missing the handle. The centerboards and rudders all got a new molding at around sail no. 1100 , these are much better but i wouldn't say crucial unless you want to compete at top level (I've still got my old ones) Never sailed it with a good old style main so cant tell you the difference between them but its like everything, the newer the better. If you haven't got righting lines i would put some on and if you get a chance on a windy day to just practice gybing it takes some getting used to at first with doing the pole as well as the main and you will do lots of swimming |
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PeterG
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 8:26pm |
I originally was sailing with non-regular crews so telling them to pull the blue rope was easier than telling them to pull this 5mm blue rope before pulling the 4mm blue rope etc.
Mmm, you probably could have made that a bit easier to operate
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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andy h
Groupie Joined: 13 Mar 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 69 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 8:38pm |
When we had one we re-rigged it with a shorter kite halyard / retrieval line that just goes straight back up the chute from the hoisting block, not around the back of the boat. Less string and friction as the helm never hoists. All the 4s I've crewed more recently have been set up like this.
Early boats had good foils from when the original tooling was new. It was as the tools aged that the quality wasn't so good prior to re-tooling.
Edited by andy h - 26 Mar 17 at 8:39pm |
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Europe AUS53 & FF 3615
National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret |
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andy h
Groupie Joined: 13 Mar 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 69 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 9:29pm |
Sails: there are very few good old style ones left to draw a comparison from. New ones give you better visibility!
Generally there are few tweaks allowed and tbh few are necessary. You might want to upgrade some blocks to a better brand of chandlery, but that's about it. Other tweaks like a 2:1 main halyard are largely a matter of taste. It's a great boat right out of the box, so enjoy it!
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Europe AUS53 & FF 3615
National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret |
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RS400atC
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 10:13pm |
2:1 main halyard is a definite improvement.
Old style mains are IMHO a bit flatter than the new vago style, I'm still using one for club racing. Still OK, particularly if you have a light crew. Heavy teams will prefer the new main. Most of the white jibs must be clapped now, but I'm still working through my stock.... There are some kites around in IMHO poor quality fabric. I use separate 'pole out' not a single line hoist. Halyard around the back as Clubracer says on short rope pennants off the toe strap mounts. Our boat has always been like that, never seen a reason to change it. Just occasionally, I end up pulling the kite up the last bit from the helm, 99% the crew does it. Continuous Cunningham and kicker well worth doing, if dome right you should be able to cleat the leeward side by pulling the line from windward. Righting lines, I'm fitting them for this season, having moved to a place with big waves. The boat turtlles quite easily and the plate is very high when the boat's on its side. Main jammer. you either want a shackle or two under your harken ratchet, or the adjustable height Ronstan set up. Autoratchets on the kite sheets are nice. Also on the jib. Watch for old booms with the sheet attachments on the bottom, most of them have broken by now. They crack around these fittings. Self releasing clamcleat on the rudder downhaul has probably earned its keep in Chichester Harbour shallow bits. Do calibrate the jib halyard for rig tension. |
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Oinks
Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Oct 14 Location: Bandol Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 17 at 11:51pm |
All good info here.
We have the spinny halliard led over in front of the crew so if there's a snag the crew see's it straight away. The helm can then concentrate on steering around the windward mark and setting the boat off in the right direction. Single line hoist...anyone who is any good gave that up ages ago. Foredeck lip (cockpit in front of crew) glue a car door protector here...when crews hoisting kite frantically, the thin halliard cuts grooves here. (My crew hoists standing up, not sitting down). Spinny chute...lube every couple of weeks. Mast groove and all mast sheaves...lube every time the mast comes down. Older foils not too much of a problem but make sure the rudder goes down at the right angle. If the pivot hole has worn it might end up going forward of vertical. It can be remedied by filling with epoxy and being redrilled correctly' Slot gasket...big bummer if this is worn out. Days work to replace. Make sure no cracks around the pintles. Otherwise, pull up the sails and g oand enjoy one of the best 2-person hiking out boats ever designed!
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rs41212
Newbie Joined: 27 Mar 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 9 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Mar 17 at 10:31am |
There are the big upgrades - getting the new style sails and carbon spinnaker pole.
The middle upgrades such as making the kicker 16:1 and either the rig tension or cunnigham 8:1 (can't remember which) although every single boat I've seen so far has already done this. Then making the kicker continuous, cunningham continuous and adding elastic take ups for them and the rig tension under the thwart. Then there are the small upgrades or tweaks. Jib sheet ratchets on the floor allow easier fine tuning in the windy stuff. A thin piece of elastic between the wing wang cleats to put the bung over and hold it out the way and stop it going back into the bailer hole for when its windy and wavy and water is being blown into the boat or you dip a side in a tack. Thick tight elastic 6-8mm from the shroud down to the toe strap point - these are used to keep the kite sheets from dropping in the water and in light winds will actually set the kite when it is hoisted. Tying the end of the outhaul to the kicker point on the boom at the max out setting makes it really easy to use, you just knock it out of the cleat when the crew comes into the boat at the windward mark. On the new style booms its worth drilling an extra hole in the end to put your outhaul through so it can't hop out of the knook it is normally in in the end. Or tie a piece of elastic to the clew and the mainsheet attachment point to keep the outhaul always under tension. Making sure your tube loop wing wang handles sit tight to the cleat when the opposite handle is pulled means it is always in the same place and easier to grab. I've seen those with t handles use a piece of elastic between the thwart level jib block and the mainsheet turret area to make sure the t handle is always hanging in the same spot for the same reason. A bit of neoprene or similar stuck to the back end of the boom to stop it scratching the boat when the main is dropped. And finally a bit of pipe insulation wrapped around the king post zip tied on not too tight so it rotates so that when the pole comes back in it glances off the king post and doesn't dent it. There is talk of a magical frictionless wing wang system but I have not seen it myself and it could be incredible, it could just be using the right blocks well lubed with the right rope or could just be psyche out material much like the towing tube I saw at rutland which directed air down inside the hull when the boat was being towed in order to make sure it was 100% dry inside. The guy had no idea if it worked but everyone wanted one after seeing it. All are easy to do yourself and even the continuous take up system is sold as a pack with all the bits by RS and there are diagrams and info on how to rig it on the facebook page. Settings for the old style sails are easily available and the settings used by the top 5 at nationals last year are also available if you use the new style sails. Hope that helps.
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RS400atC
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Mar 17 at 1:55pm |
For a while, the most crucial upgrade was to get rid of the plastic pole and fit an old metal one. I'd assume all the first ones have been either broken or recalled by now. Kicker needs to be 4x2x2 = 16:1, not 2x2x2x2 which won't have enough travel. It's better if it's all spectra not the old wire. There are details you can improve, like making sure the spinny sheets won't get into the jib blocks on the floor, particularly if you've put ratchets there. But mostly, so long as everything works and it doesn't leak, it's all about sailing it. Check out the pulleys in the special fittings at the base of the mast. On mine the ball races disintegrated which created a lot of friction in the downhaul and rig tension. Also the kite halyard and pole-out cleats, we've fitted Holt all-angle fairleads and Harken cleats. Some people fit front fairleads to the jib cleats, this helps the helm cleat the jib when the crew is struggling with the kite. IMHO, the old style main is OK, I don't notice a speed difference against comparable people upwind. But the old style jib, once it starts looking old, it's slowing you down. |
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laser193713
Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Mar 17 at 2:30pm |
Thanks for all this info.
I will keep you updated as the "project" moves forwards!
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