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Noah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 10:43am
Any sport or pastime appeals to different sections of society. That's not bias, any-ism, prejudice or any other detrimental attribute. It's just the way life is. Hockey / Netball / Synchro swimming --> mainly female; Rugby / Football / Baseball --> mainly male; Boxing / Basketball --> mainly non-Caucasian males?

We are all different and all any sport can do is ensure that it is as open as possible to new entrants. I have only come across one instance of racism in a sailing club (and that wasn't first hand, and it was by one individual rather than the club as an entity). It led to deep reflection and a fairly seismic change within the organisation.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 9:41am
Originally posted by H2

This forum just hit a new level of weird

weird?  No

uncomfortable?  Yes

This is because despite the trolling nature of intention, there is more than a grain of truth in the assumption that dinghy sailing does suffer from ethnic, gender and socio-economic bias in participation.  

 Even in Johnr's passionate defensive above, he makes an assumption around the class status of women who frequent sailing clubs...  

Originally posted by johnr

Where chauvinism existed then this got a pretty rough ride as guess what well off women don't like taking sh*t and the well educated younger females of the world who inhabit these clubs are even less likely to tolerate this.  

And he's not wrong of course.  I guess "class bias" is easier to digest than gender or ethnicity.


Edited by turnturtle - 14 May 18 at 9:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 9:25am
Did the trolls just out-troll themselves and have people nibble on their trollingness?? This forum just hit a new level of weird
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 9:22am
I don't think either hockey or netball would claim they are not suffering from institutional gender inequality... FFS both are promoted heavily as 'girls sports' at schools throughout the UK.

On the race issue, well I guess that as PE is a compulsory part of the National Curriculum, any school offering either of those sports can cover off any bias levied at introductory levels.

So back to sailing - faux offence at someone pointing out the bleeding obvious, even when done tongue in cheek (with a duff report on fishing) to ridicule other over the top caricaturing in this thread, seems a little defensive.  

 If you've never experienced racism/xenophobia, or sexism in a sailing club, or among the banter in some sailing club bars, then frankly you're not very observant.  Do I want to dwell on it, or cite examples?  No... what's the point, a) it will fall on deaf ears and b) what possible bloody difference would it make???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote johnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 8:46am
Originally posted by turnturtle

“A range of evidence suggests about three-quarters of regular dedicated water sports participants are likely to be men aged 18 to 60 years. Over 60% of participants in inland water-based sport and recreation are from social groups A, B, and C1, although these groups comprise less than 50% of the UK population.”

The stats don’t lie... given the lack of participation by women and ethnic minorities, it’s pretty clear the sport has institutional racism and gender inequality issues, even if individual participants feel that they are not racist or sexist.

http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=WC01001_1350_FRP.pdf



To claim a single or group of sailing clubs have institutional racism and/or gender inequality issues I would be looking for more than stats for this. I would be looking for specific instances and then the best way of dealing with this is to drive it out by shining a light on it. I have grown up in sailing clubs where I have never seen direct racism and if I had I would have called out the individual aggressively. Where chauvinism existed then this got a pretty rough ride as guess what well off women don't like taking sh*t and the well educated younger females of the world who inhabit these clubs are even less likely to tolerate this.

It is important to remember that just because large sections of society are not interested in joining a sailing club this is not down to the sailing clubs themselves. For the cost of a entry level boat and membership you can buy an iphone, high end clothes and go to the gym. If you club has a problem with gender inequality and racism then address the issue at hand and stop telling me and my other fellow sailors that we are the problem. Get yourself off to a hockey or netball forum and you can talk about how there are too many white women and this is proof of racism and gender inequality.      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 8:40am

Now perhaps it is time to move on ..... or far better still back to GRF's conspiracy theories if you really all want a bit of subject  diversion.   Much more entertaining surely ....

A bit of supporting evidence would be good of course.   Just one tiny teeny little bit even.  Now I know this could just prove to be a bit of a tough call – along with proving that the planet is ultimately run by lizards, Elvis really works in a fish and chips emporium in Hull, the moon landings were of course fake and alien abduction is surprisingly most common in deepest Kent.

But we all know these ‘facts’ to be true as well don’t we .. and 'they' would try and deny it .... of course they would. Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 7:18am
Originally posted by zippyRN



Originally posted by ttc546

 Your interpretation of this is complete bollox. Show me a dinghy club that exhibits racism. Show me a dinghy club that discriminates against opposite gender. The issue is far more complex than your simplistic view.

if anyone is displaying a simplsitic view it;s the   'white middle'  when these topics come up -  as demonstrated by the denial of the problems, the faux  offence at  it being pointed out that those who have   the major privileges  often have no conception of  privilege  and it;s  impact 



Privilege is the same as racism? I don't think so. I'd say it does poor service to both issues.

Understanding that being brought up with a support network that was able to, say, send you to a recent school, maybe get some tutoring to ensure the grades for a decent university, have some contacts for a start on the employment ladder gives you things many do not have is important. I'm sure some in that position think they did it all without help, and see those without he same opportunities as lazy or stupid. Many don't, too.

It may also be true that many in the UK without those opportunities are from minority backgrounds. It doesn't mean that privilege and racism are the same.

Lots of privileged people in sailing, that is undoubtedly true.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 6:26am
ZippyRN,
Not getting it?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 18 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by ttc546

 
Your interpretation of this is complete bollox. Show me a dinghy club that exhibits racism. Show me a dinghy club that discriminates against opposite gender. The issue is far more complex than your simplistic view.

if anyone is displaying a simplsitic view it;s the   'white middle'  when these topics come up -  as demonstrated by the denial of the problems, the faux  offence at  it being pointed out that those who have   the major privileges  often have no conception of  privilege  and it;s  impact 


Edited by zippyRN - 14 May 18 at 12:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 18 at 8:26am
Originally posted by iGRF

Well there are probably more cheats and those that would connive to advantage a particular class than there are ethnic minorities, probably..


I have to agree, it was disgusting how the PYAG treated the Windrush class...
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