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So what does the world need in a new dinghy then? |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
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Topic: So what does the world need in a new dinghy then? Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 5:58pm |
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Except the new boats will have an easier time sailing to their PY
Or a higher one for old boats (which is what the Merlins, N12s, I14s do isn't it)?
Yup. The N18s suggest a 47 point reduction in PN for a refined hull shape and a 40kg weight reduction, and +25 points for a penultimate if it is not rigged for a trapeze. Now all I need to do is get a realistic number for my Spice ;) say one point per kg overweight, 25 for sailing single wire (and another 25 for no wires?) and another 40 for no kite (RS200 CA recommend +43 for no kite). So that's +105 :) or 1035. I think I might just be able to sail to that (on a good day).
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 14 Jan 17 at 6:07pm |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 6:24pm | |||
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Edited by A2Z - 15 Jan 17 at 4:44pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 6:44pm | |||
Nothing wrong with suggesting numbers for old boats if the rules or even design has changed significantly. But IMO, as you rightly imply, the number used for a 1977 Wotsit should leave it no more or less competitive against a 1977 Enterprise or Laser in a similar state of repair than it did when both boats were new.
Here's my 1970ish International Moth (not me sailing), roughly Europe shaped and about a generation and a half (rig is a bit newer) after a Europe and probably about 20 points faster. It would be pretty ludicrous to race her off 500 alongside a foiling Moth so she gets a number that's about 20 points less than a current Europe. Not particularly competitive (except in drifters) but pretty fair. She's probably going to get a 'new' carbon mast (for stability) and possibly a new mylar rag, so we'll probably need to shave a few points off for that. Edited by JimC - 14 Jan 17 at 7:05pm |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 7:25pm | |||
She's a pretty thing Jim :)
I'd guess PY numbers fall over the years as classes get refined and I see nothing wrong with classes having a variance for older or newer boats. Nobody is going to argue that a 1970 Ent is going to be a little slower than a 2017 one and since the number reflects the average boat (from the subset that are raced regularly) it probably should be slightly lower for a new boat and slightly higher for the oldun. Since I've returned to slightly more serious racing I've been surprised by how small the differences are relatively speaking (a Musto is only twice as fast as an Optimist and an RS800 only 20% faster than a Hornet). The difference between crews is much more of a factor than differences between similar boats.
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 7:35pm | |||
I do find it strange that a Musto is only twice as fast as an oppie, of (not got the figures in front of me) that a Tornado cat is approx twice as fast as a Topper. Water really is a tricky medium to push things through.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 8:32pm | |||
Might be amusing to calculate knots per £ retail...
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Cirrus
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 9:00pm | |||
Water really is a tricky medium to push things through.
...But a regular 'family saloon' is capable of easily more than 50% of the speed of an F1 car of course .... at maybe less than 3 or 4% of the cost ! |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 9:32pm | |||
Air tricky too!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 10:13pm | |||
Typical family saloon, say VW Passat 128mph, F1 car, without aero downforce, around 240mph so only a little less than twice as fast, and a Bugatti Vayron will do 260 so more than twice as fast. And cars don't have the disadvantage of "displacement driving" which would bring averages down significantly. Despite the difference between planing and displacement sailing the fastest non-foiling sailboats are only twice as fast overall than the slowest. Ultimate top speed OTOH may be a different matter but I suspect the difference between say an Ent and a 49er will be less than double. Water is, indeed, a difficult medium :) edit :- and a foiling moth is exactly 2.92 times faster than an Oppie!
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 14 Jan 17 at 10:21pm |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jan 17 at 10:49pm | |||
But isn't there a basic difference between an ageing OD and an ageing development class? The guy in the old Laser is sailing a boat that (if well maintained) is to an identical design as the current boats and is 99.X% as fast as a newer Laser of the type that the PY is calculated from, The guy in the ageing development class boat is sailing a boat that (even if well maintained) is physically different and significantly slower than the current boats that the PY is calculated from. Therefore the development-class sailor is in a different position to the Laser sailor. |
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