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Speed Off the Line

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 10:31pm
Or 'demented butterflies'..... Oh hang on that's windsurfers innit?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 10:02pm
Still dodgy as hell, if you ask me, like roll tacking for the sake of it, rather than acting on windshifts or tactics. Watching a Laser start is like watching synchronised cheating.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by iGRF


But I've got to say what they're suggesting in that video about leaning it to leeward then rocking out hard looks exactly like pumping to me.


And if your course didn't change it would be. You lean it to leeward to steer the boat, then roll it flat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 5:05pm
When I was racing Raceboards (and Div 1 before that) I had an on-the-water adjustable outhaul and downhaul. They got adjusted at every windward and leeward mark, and the downhaul was a life saver if the wind really picked up (or dropped). With the Demon Design sails I was using it made a huge difference to the available power and controllability. Compared to (less sophisticated) mainstream designs they were fairly tight leeched (so fast in the light/marginal stuff) but lots of downhaul (mine was 8:1) would open it up enough for my 65kg (as was) to hold on up to 25 knots. Sadly I'm no longer fit enough to pump as much as is required for competitive windsurf racing.

Originally posted by iGRF

But I've got to say what they're suggesting in that video about leaning it to leeward then rocking out hard looks exactly like pumping to me.

It is but it's not the demented butterflies us raceboard sailors look like on a light wind run :)

Apparently you can do it (as a roll tack or gybe) but only if it doesn't make the boat go faster!!!!!


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 14 Dec 16 at 5:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 4:52pm
You can organise on the fly out & downhaul systems, some would dump both at the weather mark and balloon out the sail for the downwind legs, personally I preferred a tight rig which pumps better and the time taken to adjust the downhaul measured against a lost shift or tack whilst you were distracted wasn't worth the preceived speed gain.

Back in the day I experimented with boom vangs (kicker style arrangement) and topping lifts but really nothing works any better than good hard pumping, something I can do in a dinghy now, but the Miracle Mums whine like biatches even if they see the little Solution rocking a bit, they don't even like it when I stand up to force it to leeward with my knees when it gets a bit iffy.

But I've got to say what they're suggesting in that video about leaning it to leeward then rocking out hard looks exactly like pumping to me.

Edited by iGRF - 14 Dec 16 at 4:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Originally posted by Ardea

I don't know you, but with my limited experience of windsurfing there is little to no on the water rig control so you might be behind the curve here.  Getting some pointers, or crewing/helming on a 2 person boat with someone who knows how to adjust a rig around the course could be helpful?

Windsurf course racers (Raceboards, Formula Windsurfing, slalom etc) have used a comprehensive set of rig controls since pretty much the beginning so I'm sure GRF has plenty of experience that way. A windsurf rig has two main controls, outhaul and downhaul (which is the equivalent of a dinghy Cunningham). They work in much the same way too, the downhaul bends the mast and loosens the leech and the outhaul flattens the sail.

The difference is that you can't adjust these controls on the fly like you can with a dinghy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Ardea

I don't know you, but with my limited experience of windsurfing there is little to no on the water rig control so you might be behind the curve here.  Getting some pointers, or crewing/helming on a 2 person boat with someone who knows how to adjust a rig around the course could be helpful?

Windsurf course racers (Raceboards, Formula Windsurfing, slalom etc) have used a comprehensive set of rig controls since pretty much the beginning so I'm sure GRF has plenty of experience that way. A windsurf rig has two main controls, outhaul and downhaul (which is the equivalent of a dinghy Cunningham). They work in much the same way too, the downhaul bends the mast and loosens the leech and the outhaul flattens the sail.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by pondlife1736

Informative thread this one, and hats off to igrf for putting up the video.
The space to leeward thing always gets me, how do you defend it? Just when I think I've got a nice bit of room to accelerate into, somebody pops into it, forces me up and I get spat out the back. Any suggestions what I should be doing?
I found the Shirley Robertson video particularly helpful.
 
Ref. The gap I think it depends on how competitive the start is, but you can try and make the space look uninviting by filling the space, heading down, easing the boom and so forth so the port tacker ignores your space.   

This is rarely a problem at a club race and certainly was not an issue for Graeme's start.  I am pretty hopeless at it at championships, I think that I am the marshmallow, since there always seems to be a hotshot to windward!

Yes, there's no proper course before the start so if you see someone approaching from behind then bear off into the gap you've created and they will normally look elsewhere. You may need to work to open up the gap again afterwards but it's preferable to it being completely filled by someone else. Also, don't make your gap to leeward too big too early or you're asking for someone to steal it.

My standard starting technique is to approach on port tack and tack under a starboard tacker and steal their gap!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ardea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 12:36pm
As a small, light, person I'd suggest getting the trim right even if it means you lose some righting moment is the way to go.  It's probably faster and will give you more options on pointing high or low.  When you move back to a wider section of boat to generate some extra righting moment (probably not much extra, but I'm happy to be corrected) the transom will create more drag which means you need to sail lower to generate the power to offset the extra drag, sort of a vicious circle which will stop you having the option to point high.

I don't know you, but with my limited experience of windsurfing there is little to no on the water rig control so you might be behind the curve here.  Getting some pointers, or crewing/helming on a 2 person boat with someone who knows how to adjust a rig around the course could be helpful?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 11:36am
Thanks, interesting stuff, racing windsurfers with pumping allowed sitting on the line until just before the gun was the usual tactic, loads of PLF and you could hit warp speed in a couple of board lengths but back in the day when I was racing OKs and Herons the plan was to hit the line at full speed, close hauled and exactly on the gun. This was recommended by several of the pundits with various methods suggested to achieve it. (e.g. with 20 secs to go sailing away from the line for 8 seconds turning and making your final run). Hitting the line at speed is probably still the fastest way to start but is definitely a high risk strategy and not really an option on a crowded start line.

edit :- I've just been leafing through a couple of old sailing books (Elvstrom's "Expert Dinghy Racing" and Eyvin Schiottz "Practical Yacht Racing") and discovered that Paul Elvestrom was credited with developing the technique of sitting on the line and using it very effectively at the Helsinki Olympics in 1952........ 


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 14 Dec 16 at 12:02pm
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