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Comparison- Rs400 and 59er experience

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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by tgruitt

59er because 400's are complete dogs to sail, so there!


good job in the cherub BTW!

You a light weight peron though?

I wouldn't say the 400 is a dog, just an old fashioned design and build with a pole stuck on the front. Good OD racing.
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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 4:38pm
Look , No trapeze!

The issue of top competition boats having a need,
expectation and destiny to have trapezes is codswallup.

If this were true the 400 would never have pulled

people away from the likes of 505s (see L&LSC) or Iso's
, fireballs etc. to become such a big new class with
high quality sailors choosing it.

As for high performance craft, which plane "round the
clock" there have been hike out boats since the 60s which
do this - namely NS14 and the productised tasar. Later on
JB spotted a gap for the b14, which is OVER 20 years old
now (god, time flies!!)

Actually, the 59er mast will not support a trapeze-
it has been designed  down to a sub 10kg bare spar without
 the need forextra stiffness and compression resistance
needed for a trapp'ed up boat. So it stands as a pretty
unique non  winged hike out skiff.

Also the boat was probably never
thought of having big production numbers, so it is a
testimony to Ovington and Selden to get the mast into
production at a reasonable cost from the drawing board
down unda.

Edited by damp_freddie
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 5:10pm

I can't comment on the 59er as Ive never sailed one, so I feel abit left out on this thread. But I can confirm that the 400 is NOT a 'dog' to sail....you just need to be agressive on the bearing away (much more than Im used, and definately more than Cherubs).

The 400 in my mind fills the Merlins weak spots admirably and deserves its position as the number one heavy weight SMOD hike out boat of the last 10 years.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote les5269 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 5:15pm

Bumble your spoiling Damp-Freddies record breaking thread run!He was trying for xxxx pages of only his posts

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Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 5:57pm

Originally posted by damp_freddie

Originally posted by tgruitt

59er because 400's are complete dogs to sail, so there!


good job in the cherub BTW!

You a light weight peron though?

I wouldn't say the 400 is a dog, just an old fashioned design and build with a pole stuck on the front. Good OD racing.

 

Not lightweight, about 12 stone actually!

I usually crew a Cheub and a Merlin and after sailing the RS400 I am glad I sail a Merlin, the 400 is no where near as good as a merlin. Anyway i digress. 59ers are good fun and make me smile, 400's make me grimace due to rubbishly painful decks and stupid jib sheets that are behind you when you tack! Who designed that!

Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 6:08pm
I thought they were bringing out a conversion kit to add trapezes to the 59er? I doubt that will include a new mast!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 8:20pm
Having sailed both boats. i think they are both very nice boats to sail. I dont see what tgruitt is saying at all the 400 is a very comfotable boat to hike out of and the jib sheets being behind you is easy enough to get used to infact i dont understand why other boats arent like that its easier! A well set up 400 is an absolute dream to sail. does nothing wrong helm is completeley light (my helm regularly let go off it to prove this). One point mr damp you say you were feathering it in the gust that is not the fastest way to sail them at all! keeping it flat and playing the main lots is by far the fastest!
The 59er is certainly a little livelier but it is a skiff! I have sailed it in light and windy (and gusty conditions) and i think it wld provide good racing in a fleet but not as close as the 400 which has some of the best sailing arround.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 05 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by CurlyBen

I thought they were bringing out a conversion kit to add trapezes to the 59er? I doubt that will include a new mast!


I think the mast really isn't up for it and I have it on very good aithority. It won't take the side-bend or compression.


The 400 shows that there is a lively market for good sailors to go hike out, and even come off the wire into the class.

As for comfort..hmm...59er is 'straight leg' which  takes a bit of getting acclimatised to in the quadraceps dept.

comfy? ever sailed a tasar? the 400 was a bit sub optimal to my posterior, and the rear straps did my head in.






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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 05 at 11:17pm
Hi Calum-

I can actually say I did a travellors just along the road from you at DBSC c1999-2000. Bit funny in wind agin'  tide ISTR and some nasty hard bits just under the surface! But lovely views in your area and some top sailors.

Anyway, it was the biggest travellor I had been at, sailing at L&Lsc's 'muddy puddle' before. Some good teams headed up, others played out low and fast.

It is (despite your other observation on a different thread) a displacement boat up wind and will have good VMG taking the apparent lift rather than pushing water, or going lower, out of the wave form to plane. All this is no bad thing in a well produced OD.

I won a club race with some chap who had a top ten overall as crew at the previous years nat's and he just hiked like a soling and told me to pinch in the gusts. We trucked the other 400s.

Actually a more relevant-interesting comparison would be RS400 to MRX.

any chat on that one?





Edited by damp_freddie
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 05 at 4:34pm
It all depends where your sailing. Inland pinch like mad. In waves DONT! DBSC -or Dalgrotty as i know it is a nice enough place to sail but not a patch on where we sail just along the road. As all the cherub and moth sailors will tell you in september. After they have the best sailing of there life at the mighty Largo Bay SC.

Edited by Calum_Reid
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