A Class Qustions

   Hello
Just been surfing the net and looking at A Class cats.  They look fantastic!  I've got a couple of questions, does any one know the answers?
1) Has anyone tried asymmetic daggerboards i.e. only curved on the inboard side?  This would give more lift to windward, I think (at the expense of more drag).
2) Has anyone had one with a jib? I wondered whether extending the main boom forward of the mast (and sitting under the mast) and attaching a jib might be any good.  (Like an AeroRig but with a rotating mast)
Cheers

Author	Message Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic
Chew my RS Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chew my RS Report Post Quote Reply Topic: A Class Qustions Posted: 01 Dec 05 at 8:19pm
	Hello Just been surfing the net and looking at A Class cats. They look fantastic! I've got a couple of questions, does any one know the answers? 1) Has anyone tried asymmetic daggerboards i.e. only curved on the inboard side? This would give more lift to windward, I think (at the expense of more drag). 2) Has anyone had one with a jib? I wondered whether extending the main boom forward of the mast (and sitting under the mast) and attaching a jib might be any good. (Like an AeroRig but with a rotating mast) Cheers

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 05 at 8:37pm
	I think they are already using asymetric plates - but not sure. But the hassle of dropping the current windward plate before you tack and then lifting the new one once you have tacked might remove any benefit. I also think that the jib would just slow things down - kill pointing and move sail area out of the main. Another problem is that the A class (along with most cats) has a rotation mast and so you cannot "just extend the boom". Also I don't think that the class rules allow a jib - but again I am not sure. The A class rig is a very efficient wing and moving the sail area out wount be good. Follow the links via the Y+Y clubs and classes to the A class web site.
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Chew my RS Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chew my RS Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 8:41am
	Thanks for the response - at least one of the ideas wasn't so dumb! On the subject of the jib though, I believe it would be possible to have an extended boom by sitting the mast on top of the boom (so that the boom height at the mast is zero). Doesn't a jib assist lift/drag ratios in the same way that a biplane works (or the slotted wing sail on C Class cats)? I know biplanes aren't used on modern aircraft, but even the fastest boat is low compared to a WW1 plane. There doesn't appear to be anything in the A Class rules prohibiting jibs. It may not work, but has anyone actually tried...

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 10:30am
	The thing is that the boom assists is rotating the mast (and keeping it there). Thing is that given all the development of the A class with a proper wing mast I doubt very much if a jib is usefull - afterall all the C class boats are now only using one sail.
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Jalani Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 03 May 05 Location: Great Britain Online Status: Offline Posts: 164	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jalani Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 10:43am
	In the 1970's (and poss the early 80's) several A's tried jibs. I raced against one regularly (on handicap on a Condor) and although he was VERY quick on a reach in 10-15knots of breeze he was murdered in all wind conditions upwind by the unirig As. They ALWAYS pointed higher and travelled at a similar speed to him. Ergo they got to the A mark first. After a couple of years of this he had a bigger main made and dropped the jib. Although he didn't suddenly start winning he was at least more competitive upwind. I think it was the same story with the other As that tried jibs. From my own experience with the F16, when unirigged I do point a lot higher with only a slight drop off in boatspeed so that overall a uni is comparable upwind to a sloop F16 and possibly slightly faster in the medium breezes.

Chew my RS Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chew my RS Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 12:11pm
	Simon - Good point about the boom. Jalani - I guess that blows that idea! Still, with more emphasis on windward/leeward courses the ability to go downwind quickly might be more important now... My dad sailed Condors then too, I crewed for him occasionally (but not till I was out of short trousers!) and really liked it - especially the 4.9 update. Shame they're not still around, there isn't really anything for that part of the market now.

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 12:59pm
	I actually thing the F18 has replaces the condor to some extent (wandering off topic) When I were a lad (a long time ago) there was a good fleet of Condors on the east coast - Spend meany a moon chasing (and being chased) by Andy Webb and Mark Self in their Condor around. Condor's have all but disappeared and the Dart 18 does not get the fleet it once did. I think the F18 has hoovered a fair number of these people up - or they want intoi the Hurricane 5.9 and never came back.
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Chew my RS Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chew my RS Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 1:25pm
	But the F18 isn't suitable as 'my first boat'. The Condor was, but was still good for those after good racing too. The Dart is a bit too basic - not easy to win in, but lacking so many controls.

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 1:49pm
	I disagree about the F18; I know a few people who started in Huricane 5.9's as their first cat/boat. The F18 is not the most powerful boat out there.. There are plenty of cheap options out there 2nd(or 3rd/4th) hand and then you can move up the ladder as you progress. People have asked me in the past about good starter boats and I've always said you "you just need to know your limits". You go out in a F5 for the first time in a Cat (any cat) you are going to get into trouble - particularly if you have only sailed slow boats.
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Jalani Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 03 May 05 Location: Great Britain Online Status: Offline Posts: 164	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jalani Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 3:31pm
	There's a fair argument that the new F16 class will fit the bill as a good introduction to performance cat sailing and (hopefully) some really good class racing. One or two up with the same handicap and a spinnaker too! Mind you, the Spitfire already fits the bill as a Condor replacement in many ways and I think its results in large regattas - Texel, Aruba etc. have made a lot of people think again about what they are sailing. I agree with you Scoob, the F18s and the 5.9s have hoovered up most of the people that the Condor and Hydra had as their target market. But things change and I'm hopeful that as the potential of the F16 class develops and more F18s get beaten on actual time people will sit up and take notice!