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Tiller Grip |
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Do Different
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Topic: Tiller Grip Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 7:37am |
Purely my own observational comments.
Surely across chest or over shoulder is a dynamic thing depending on the position of the helm on different points of sail and subtle differences of the geometry between boats.
When using a dagger grip, flicking between over aft shoulder and across the chest requires only an effortless rotation. With a centre sheeting point pushing the extension in front of you as you cross the boat can be smoothly accomplished without any changes of grip. |
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transient
Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 10:05am |
In the L2 I use dagger unless I'm sitting in and then frying pan. I have an old Ent and I really couldn't face transom sheeting so I converted it to sheet off the boom, dagger most of the time.
I help out occasionally with adult learners in club Visions. The tiller & extension are way too short to get the trim right, presumably made like this so it all passes the falls. Frying pan grip with that awful (IMO) boat.
Edited by transient - 22 Sep 16 at 10:07am |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 12:36pm |
I didn't realise you had to hold it in any specific way and for the life of me I can't remember which way I think it differs depending on which tack I'm on then if it's light I just have the knob on the end between the two index fingers.
You do have to have it sort of dagger when you need to grab rope to sheet in hard I know that but then you switch back don't you? Is it important? |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 1:47pm |
All the official instructor johnnies seem to attach considerable importance to such things When I did a windsurfing instructor course back in the mists I was castigated relentlessly for an underhand front grip. Having raced Raceboards with modest success for more years than care to relate, I maintain it is better in many circumstances. When I learned to sail dinghies (mid '60s) there was no fuss, you just held the tiller in whatever way felt comfortable.
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Roger
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 04 Location: Somerset Online Status: Offline Posts: 524 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 4:00pm |
To be honest I've never heard the tern "frying pan grip" although I've heard of the "briefcase grip" which is probably the same.
I know a lot of the top guys will use the briefcase grip in light winds, that is tiller aft of them as they swear it causes less involuntary movement and minor use of the tiller is just that, very small movement, as said above you will also see them place the tiller on the deck to stop any movement. However my understanding is that as the wind builds and you start to hike then the across the chest, dagger grip as you describe, is used by most, as the wind builds you are likely to be altering the mainsheet tension much more, and occasionally large amounts of it, so 2 hands for sheeting are required. There are of course exceptions to this, I14 for example with both crew on the wire and the helm is just steering as the crew has the mainsheet, this gives more options as to how to hold the tiller. However at the end of the day you do what feels right for you, and what allows you to do the other things in the boat smoothly, you can't be thinking about how to hold the tiller when your head and eyes should be out of the boat. |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 7:41pm |
I still use underhand grip up wind in certain circumstances, there are no absolutes racing windsurfers you just do what it takes to beat the other b**tards.. As for SI's I've met, they're often great at boat handling but they don't have the first idea how to race, wandering all over the show, overstanding, leaving miles of room at marks, never on the start line never mind the right end and as for spotting shifts.... |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 9:56pm |
On my DI course, on my various endorsements and even on my SI course I've been told I hold my tiller extension wrong, mainly by people who I could happily beat in a race. So long as I know how to teach where to hold the tiller when starting out, to make life easy for the student and allow sails to be sheeted properly, if they then find a way that suits them better as they improve, then I'm happy with that.
I'm running a race training course this weekend. If I see tillers being held in such a way that it is slowing people down, I shall suggest changes. Otherwise, I really don't care. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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zippyRN
Far too distracted from work Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 11:12pm |
Senior Instructor means nothing in terms of ability it just means you can be a course leader/ director / be put forward as a prinicipal instructor ( iirc there's also something about needing a Senior instructor present if there are a certain amount of students 'on site' at any one )
Instructors teach up to level 3 as was ( in the old G4 scheme) Advanced Instructors teach the old level 5 / instructor pre-entry assessment Racing Instructors teach the old level 4 / red/white ./ blue racing badges |
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Phil_1193
Groupie Joined: 07 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 78 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 6:45am |
In the Phantom with a centre main sheet and no cleat its best to hold the tiller across the chest then the thumb on the tiler hand can hold the sheet as you sheet in and move your other hand down the rope, as opposed to using your teeth.
Also means you can hold the mainsheet in the tiler hand when you need to adjust kicker, forestay, out haul, cunningham, lowers and pulling centre board up/ down, with the other hand!!! |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 9:24am |
That's the only advantage of an across the chest tiller extension position but then I struggle with the lack of feel and control the inefficient angle of the extension causes........ Perhaps I should go back to transom sheeting :(
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