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Dinghy hull weights

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Aug 16 at 10:32am
I'll weigh my Spice 'all up' today and publish, possibly a tin rig Phantom too. Not going to risk my £10 Tesco scales under the Wayfarer though  Wink

Did you actually weigh a Buzz BTW (published weight according to Noble's dinghy database is 5kg more than Spice....... different weighing methods maybe?)?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 16 at 11:06am
Don't make the assumption that all members of a class - even a SMOD - will be the same weight...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 16 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by JimC

Don't make the assumption that all members of a class - even a SMOD - will be the same weight...

I'm sure that's right. However, a couple of years ago we had a discussion with Richard Woof, the original builder of the RS300, at one of our events. He had his build bible with him and of the six or seven owners participating, all of their boats were within 1kg of each other when they came out of the mould.
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 16 at 12:35pm

Blazes have been in epoxy for over a decade now - there is no reason therefore why a 10 year old boat should still not be on standard weight – every hull is weighted and correctors added to bring up to standard weight. It might be of interest to some to know that for more than half the life of the Blaze class now epoxy has been used.  They have always been fully foamed in terms of construction as well  in both polyester and epoxy and don't generally 'go soft' with time,   Polyester boats, and this includes earlier Blazes can put on weight through moisture take-up. 

But not all will have done so if they are regularly washed out with fresh water and thoroughly dried over a few weeks (try a boiler house - it really does work !!) .  The best polyester boats can still be around standard weight today - and the nationals results in recent years do include polyester examples right to the very top.  Are there a few aging polyester clunkers' around ? - almost certainly just as there are in most classes.  Some could be 'bought back' with a bit of  TLC and can be become a very cost-effective entry boat for those prepared to put in some effort.

Not used for the Blaze at any point but 'vinyl-ester' has some of the characteristics of epoxy and is superior to polyester.  As with epoxy it does not effectively take-up moisture over time and is a good compromise for some classes.  I'm told, though don't know this for certain, that the RS 400 (and possibly 200) have more recently switched from polyester to vinyl-ester for these good reasons amongst others.   Closer to home Icon was originally made in vinyl-ester but the new Rondar version/derivative of that boat will apparently be in epoxy.  The new boat is primarily intended for the N.American market and the use of epoxy, while not strictly technically needed, does position it as more of a premium product there.  



Edited by Cirrus - 24 Aug 16 at 4:13pm
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transient View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 16 at 5:33pm
Thanks for that Mr Cirrus. Still leaves a couple of questions though. I know the minimum weight is 72kgs but what is standard weight? and are the modern ones made to the same weight tolerance as thew 10yr old ones or are the built closer to 72kgs now?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 8:50am
Originally posted by transient

Thanks for that Mr Cirrus. Still leaves a couple of questions though. I know the minimum weight is 72kgs but what is standard weight? and are the modern ones made to the same weight tolerance as thew 10yr old ones or are the built closer to 72kgs now?

Unless you travel round and weigh a load of the older generations of Blaze you are unlikely to get an answer. Topper certainly never published hull weights so you are at the mercy of the builder.

The pre-Cirrus Blazes were sold by Topper but built by White Formula (IIRC). I had 655 (the second of the X versions with the semi-soft sail) and it was reputed (in the fleet) to be towards the lighter end of the usual hull weights (but had never been weighed to my knowledge).

As has been said what is far more important is how the boat has been treated over it's lifetime, especially polyester resins as they do take on water.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by transient

Thanks for that Mr Cirrus. Still leaves a couple of questions though. I know the minimum weight is 72kgs but what is standard weight? and are the modern ones made to the same weight tolerance as thew 10yr old ones or are the built closer to 72kgs now?

Unless you travel round and weigh a load of the older generations of Blaze you are unlikely to get an answer. Topper certainly never published hull weights so you are at the mercy of the builder.

I never thought I would get an answer to that question. I thought I'd still ask though. ;-)

The pre-Cirrus Blazes were sold by Topper but built by White Formula (IIRC). I had 655 (the second of the X versions with the semi-soft sail) and it was reputed (in the fleet) to be towards the lighter end of the usual hull weights (but had never been weighed to my knowledge).

With all due respect, there you go again with "usual hull weight"  same as Mr. Cirrus's "standard hull weight". Logically and in all fairness I think I can expect a straight answer to the question: What is standard hull weight?

The question of dinghy manufacturers weights as published (or not) appears in some cases to be so opaque as to be meaningless and many punters will always wonder why.



 




Edited by transient - 25 Aug 16 at 3:39pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 2:56pm
To my mind the main reason boat weights are so opaque is that its surprisingly troublesome to organise weighing a reasonable sample of boats accurately.

Not much point in getting tetchy about it.

Edited by JimC - 25 Aug 16 at 2:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by JimC

To my mind the main reason boat weights are so opaque is that its surprisingly troublesome to organise weighing a reasonable sample of boats accurately.

Weighing at manufacture is easy. Specifying the weight on a website is even easier.
Hull weight, Fitted hull weight and all up weight please.


Not much point in getting tetchy about it.

My post was quite reasonably worded I thought, projection maybe? Wink 


Edited by transient - 25 Aug 16 at 3:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 8:20pm
I have, today, more accurately weighed my Topper Spice (346, built by White Formula in, I think, 1998) and, all up, it weighs 152kg (+/- 2kg I'd say). That is 134kg for the hull and mast, with rigging, jib and kite onboard and 18kg for the other bits (mainsail, boom/mainsheet tackle daggerboard and rudder assembly). A disappointing 20kg more than I hoped. I guess my 'not entirely watertight' hull will have absorbed a little H2O over the years but I can't believe 20 litres. 

I also weighed my mate's L3k and arrived at 116kg (just to rub salt into the wound.....).

Might weigh a 'tin rig' Phantom tomorrow if my other mate will risk the embarrassment, and possibly a Topaz Trez. Then I plan to find a L@ser to weigh.......


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 25 Aug 16 at 8:20pm
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