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Laser Replica Sails

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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 6:38pm
I am sorry to disagree, what is it that makes it ok to rip off designers in the marine industry, when it is unacceptable in other industries?

I am the parent of a young designer who as a student has had her designs copied by household name designers, I find the practice repugnant, and I note that the government is taking steps to prevent ripping off furniture, such as Eames chairs.  

So yes by all means buy a replica Laser sail but in the process you are perpetuating a practice that prevents designers earning a living, which in the long term can only result in poor design.

Rant over.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

I am sorry to disagree, what is it that makes it ok to rip off designers in the marine industry, when it is unacceptable in other industries?

I am the parent of a young designer who as a student has had her designs copied by household name designers, I find the practice repugnant, and I note that the government is taking steps to prevent ripping off furniture, such as Eames chairs.  

So yes by all means buy a replica Laser sail but in the process you are perpetuating a practice that prevents designers earning a living, which in the long term can only result in poor design.

Rant over.
But the designer of the Laser (Bruce Kirby) is no longer paid royalties by the class or the builder of Lasers in Europe, so who's really ripping who off?    
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 7:13pm
And Charles and Ray Eames?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote realnutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 7:28pm
Are the available "replica" sails exactly that? If they're reverse engineered from an original, then I'm with you David..

If, however, they're a "sail to fit a Laser", then what's the problem? OK, they might have been designed by putting the same parameters into the same piece of sail design software, and come out within a few decimal points of the originals, but they are an independent design....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 9:09pm
No need to be sorry to disagree, surely your right.

Non genuine parts are common in many industries. Pattern car parts are widely used once vehicles are out of warranty as they in agricultural and plant, I suspect others also which I have no knowledge of.

I wouldn't say that I am troubled to the point of repugnance but what I find unacceptable is for designers and manufactures to expect a meal ticket for life from one effort.

Evolution is a fact of life and the way for designers to keep the income stream coming and even growing is to do some more work and make people want the new product.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 9:11pm
Yep your right people copying designs is terrible. But only one supplier of sails fixing what ever price they choose sounds like a monopoly commission issue. So end of the day democratic market forces are at work. Do people always go for oem parts for there car or just get the bosch alternative. Swings and roundabouts
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Do Different

...what I find unacceptable is for designers and manufactures to expect a meal ticket for life from one effort.

If you are smart enough to design something that people still want to buy in 50 years time why should you be the only one *not* to make any money when its sold? Its not as if dinghy designers are generally on a salary and pension...

But the thing about Laser sails is that the true SMOD nature of the class has historically been part of its appeal. In a world where many things are far too complicated you knew you just had to shell out for a standard Laser component and your boat would be just the same as very other Laser and there was no hassle about which sail is best for weight/venue/mast/ everything else.

There are plenty of other classes where you do have to agonise over such decisions, its good that there should be alternates for people who don't need the extra complication in their life.

In some ways the "illegal" nature of the Laser sail keeps prices down, since if "real" Laser sails were multi vendor the manufacturers would compete on perceived performance (take a look at the cost of North Optimist sails for instance!), and the cost would escalate and escalate. As it is the replica manufacturers have to compete on price because front of fleet sailors aren't interested, so they're cheap.



Edited by JimC - 02 May 16 at 9:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 9:42pm
Well Jim, I can see your point. The thing is not everyone does still want to buy the product 50 years on, some obviously see it as overpriced & outdated, only fit for fun sailing and not wishing to buy into the whole branded Class events/products.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 8:21am
Originally posted by Do Different

Well Jim, I can see your point. The thing is not everyone does still want to buy the product 50 years on, some obviously see it as overpriced & outdated, only fit for fun sailing and not wishing to buy into the whole branded Class events/products.  

I think that this is somewhat maligning the brilliance of Bruce Kirby's Design and Ian Bruce's Engineering, imo the Laser is iconic, it is wonderfully simple, offers a great sail and is a blast off wind in a blow, it belies the age of the design, which at 50 years is scary since I was an early adopter!  Whilst it may appear dated to some, it remains a more exciting sail than many of the dinghies that we are still sailing.

It's strict one design nature is why I have been quite defensive of non-replica sails and whilst I accept that you could set any old rag for cruising around, I think that it is wrong to go racing with a replica sail in a one design Laser fleet, for all sorts of reasons, and if this is not covered in the NOR or SIs you are cheating.  It is quite possible that someone in the fleet might not like it but would not wish to upset the apple cart by objecting.

I do however concede that the whole Laser management thing appears to be a complete c**k up.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 8:27am
How do we get to 50 years old for the Laser? Getting close, I guess, but not there yet!
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