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Wife experience helm & Husband 95kg crew

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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 8:00am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by craiggo

If there is a good local fleet it doesn't matter if it's an old style of boat, what matters is that the racing is competitive and enjoyable.

Trouble is mate, that isn't true either, its just another myth people like to peddle. Usually people who are desperately struggling to keep a local fleet in being, which is often very hard indeed. 

Can be true, in the right circumstances:



(Admittedly this was their ?75th anniversary regatta. But they still do pretty well for a one-village class.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 8:40am
so where do you sail then is the big question?
(Redoubt Sc)
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Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 9:33am
well if you only tipped it in half a dozen times or so, despite sailing something as ungainly as a Xenon in a F5, I think we could all agree on something.... well done!

You are in a very awkward slot - being too heavy for the 200 and possibly a little on the light side for a 400, especially in fruity conditions.  RS brought out the 500 for combinations such as yours, but honestly it's a pig of a boat.  This kind of rules out the RS doubleheaders, which is a shame as they are very much a 'safe bet' for club racing asymmetric dinghies.  

I wouldn't rule out symmetric spinnakers - most classes have adapted to make handling them quite a bit easier- twin poles, or at least spiro systems to launch the pole automatically.  This opens up Merlin Rockets and Fireballs - both are great thriving classes with good quality boats from 3 to 4 grand upwards and you'd probably find somewhere locally where there are couple or so forming a mini-fleet.  But I do agree with Jim, it could be worth going for a sail in one first- symmetric kites aren't for everyone.  



  


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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:21am
These people on here, bless them, are well meaning enough, but they are the product of their upbringing, shackled to pre history, a world of clubs and classes where nirvana is everyone sailing the same stuff.

The real world for grown ups trying to improve is full of dross and half assed heavy crap, or you go back and sail the same old sh*t they've been pedalling for centurys and really it is so complicated as to give no one a chance of doing much better than midfleet.

So my suggestion is get something fast and modern, so you get the sizzle as well as the sausage, all that switching the bloody pole from side to side in a gybe, it's back there with crank starting your bentley at the start of the 1922 le Mans.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but the Xenon is a single action pole out hoist kite all in one move device and is asymmetric so you sail angles downwind and theoretically end up beating that balloon to the lower mark. In truth, the RS400 would be worth a look it's a good boat, but it is a hiker, so no wire to lever that extra speed upwind or on a tight reach. The RS Vision is another plastic boat that's similar in many ways but unless it's blowing dogs of chains like your Xenon is slow and unresponsive and as such feels overpowered when other boats might break free, plane and lighten up.

Your welcome to come down to Hythe, but all we've got are Visions, my Alto is still off the water at the moment but if you google Wilsonian and Alto Boats there are a few Man & Wife teams up there ripping the medway up in their Alto's. Another one you could look at, although it's getting a bit below the weight threshold is the Buzz it's been undergoing a revamp lately I think they have some of them up there as well though can't be sure.

Don't get side tracked by tales of Merlins, Fireballs and all that other old stuff, trust me I've been trying to get the hang of this lark for ten years now and it is complicated enough as it is without all the extra ropes and whiz bang bits that half of them don't really even know what to do with, they get recommended because Industry jocks can sell sails to the lower echelon in the various classes in the mistaken belief the sails will make them go faster.

Finally anything with a pole to switch as well as the rest of the stuff you do in a gybe is more complicated than needs be when you're improving, the big deal with the Alto and to a lessor extent the RS400 you just cant the pole to one side or the other when you are saiing low and slow so you can often hold your position at least on a dead run against the likes of all that old stuff, then heat it up again on tighter reaches.

Where in Kent are you by the way?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:37am
Whilst there is a small pocket of activity in deepest, darkest Peru Kent for the Alto (Asbo as it's called around here given Graeme's preoccupation with pimping its virtues), it's worth noting that Pinnell and Bax, one of the UK's most respected dinghy specialist, de-listed it several years ago now as it simply didn't sell and has been a bit of dead duck.  

I would caution against the resale value on such a boat.... but then if you get good close racing against others, then to some extent, SFW?  


Edited by turnturtle - 15 Mar 16 at 10:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:45am
Ask that Turnturtle how many times he's sailed a two man boat lately, Pinnel and Bax in truth are 505 specialists, the Alto challenges the 505 so what do you do if your main livlihood is the sale of 505's and a competitor comes along? That's right you grab the agency from a trusting soul and sit on it.

The class is still growing albeit slowly, like the X1 X0 they keep a low profile and get on with it, I'll not go into the tales of class protectionism that abound in this nightmare sport, all I'd say is have a look at those three, the Alto, the Buzz and the RS400, if your Mrs is as experienced as you say she'll soon have you knocking at the front door of most club races in any one of those. I've taken a complete never sailed before novice to the front of our club races in no time at all in an Alto, really easy to sail and bloody quick. Resale value? The one on that stand at the dinghy show, well beaten up went for 7 grand I believe.

Edited by iGRF - 15 Mar 16 at 10:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:49am
I don't need to sail one regularly to know which are the more successful classes, where money is safer invested and to spot a dead duck when I see one.  Which the Asbo is, you mention yours is off the water at the moment.... what's that, 20% of the national fleet?

FWIW - there's some current discussion about getting a Fireball next year anyway ;-)  Although the 400 still tickles a fancy in the double handed arena.  


Edited by turnturtle - 15 Mar 16 at 10:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:57am
There you go... National Fleet, needs a class, which of course is bollox, there are twenty odd Alto's about now, all being used in various parts of the country, they had one for sale and it went at the show, nobody sells them, that one only went as an upgrade and there are not that many secondhand Alto's and if they do come up they go very quickly, because it is so well liked by anyone lucky enough to get to own one, like me. It has one major flaw, self balers, that's it and that is a hangover from your blessed 505 which has been known arguably as the Rolls Royce of single trap performance boats over the years, but, like all that other stuff is a plumbers nightmare with all the ropes and rig controls, enough to give a new crew a heart attack as well as a mental breakdown.

The only dead duck around here is a moribund sport that will not move with the times.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 11:04am
Originally posted by iGRF

There you go... National Fleet, needs a class, which of course is bollox

true, you could argue that it's a meaningless bollock, if you were happy with handicap racing only.  

What difference does open meetings, championships, a wider resale market, training weekends, active website, builder investment, sail development, international 'holiday' opportunities etc make?  Not a lot, when you are happy with handicap racing only.  

So pray, tell us, you find that rewarding currently?  You're happy with that yes?  I must have been mistaken, you see I'm sure there was a rant only a few weeks back how that was a load of b**locks too.  

I'd leave the frosting off if you want to have your cake and eat it fella....  I wouldn't want you to choke.


Edited by turnturtle - 15 Mar 16 at 11:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 1:05pm
Can't have you having the final word, but the fact is, you can't have both, new, exciting AND an established class, even less so now the activity is in, what can we say, a mature state, rather than suggest decline.

You know, even if the finest vessel known to mankind were to surface, you lot would can it, if there were not two hundred of them spread round the country with fleets to race against. Which is exactly why you have the mess you have at the moment, loads of lasers, solos, fireball, merlins, all very well for folk well versed in how to make them go, but next to useless for newcomers. Particularly newcomers that haven't had the benefit of years of squaddying, sense deprivation, and all other brainwashing that you unfortunates have had to deal with, but luckily you've now got me to set your minds free, take the red pill, get down the rabbit hole, see how far it goes..
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