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bustinben View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 11:33am
Originally posted by iGRF

I'm as racist as the next man when it comes to my health and if there were any hint of intellectual behaviour in the NHS then maybe I wouldn't be as anti, nor would I be entertaining doctors moronic enough to be wasting time posting on internet forums.

I'm not a doctor, nor do I work for the NHS or anything else remotely public sector.  I just take offence to flawed logic  Tongue
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Mar 11
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Posts: 6048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 11:47am
You take offence at someone offering a bit of helpful advice based on an actual positive experience?

You need to have a word with yourself, or maybe try one of those extremely helpful NHS counsellors..
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bustinben View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 11:59am
Originally posted by iGRF

You take offence at someone offering a bit of helpful advice based on an actual positive experience?

You need to have a word with yourself, or maybe try one of those extremely helpful NHS counsellors..

I refer you to the below:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

I take offence to flawed decision making and advice in matters of health, not people offering helpful advice.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Dec 14
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Posts: 2287 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 12:06pm
How is following some advice based on a 'I tried this ****, it worked for me, it might work for you' basis in anyway flawed decision making?    
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

How is following some advice based on a 'I tried this ****, it worked for me, it might work for you' basis in anyway flawed decision making?    


Because there is absolutely no evidence that it did work.  Anecdotes are worse than useless when it comes to making decisions on treatments.  

The advice:

"There's a therapy that I think might work for you, here are some studies that show how and when it's effective and why" 

would be helpful.  

"My dog's brother was cured of cancer by visiting a chi alignment specialist, you'd be mad to trust the NHS" 

is what is not helpful.  

There's an important distinction between these two.
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ventus View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Jul 15
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Posts: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ventus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

How is following some advice based on a 'I tried this ****, it worked for me, it might work for you' basis in anyway flawed decision making?    


Must say it's nice to see you and grf are back your antagonistic best.

Your and especially grfs posts have been so balanced and reasonable in the last few weeks, that I just assumed that your accounts had been hacked.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Dec 14
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Posts: 2287 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 1:33pm
that one wasn't antagonistic...  peer-to-peer advice is often some of the best we can receive in life.   Yet when it comes to health and nutrition, we can so easily get blinded by science.  We default to a position of trusting educated 'experts', many of whom may not have first hand experience of either the ailment or the alternative treatment.  Sure, I'm not saying the entire medical industry is full of crooks and charlatans, but do me a favour - trust them? Pharma companies, the NHS and the GPs on kick backs.... no thanks. 

Besides someone saying something worked for them, is not the same as them saying 'it will cure you'.  My conclusion on something like this, I wouldn't knock it till I tried it.    


Edited by turnturtle - 21 Dec 15 at 1:34pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Dec 14
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Posts: 2287 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by bustinben

Originally posted by turnturtle

How is following some advice based on a 'I tried this ****, it worked for me, it might work for you' basis in anyway flawed decision making?    


Because there is absolutely no evidence that it did work. 

apart from the guy saying first hand that he noticed a benefit?  OK then, that's not enough for you maybe, but I'd give it a go before resorting to NHS quacks and chemicals.  
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by bustinben

Originally posted by turnturtle

How is following some advice based on a 'I tried this ****, it worked for me, it might work for you' basis in anyway flawed decision making?    


Because there is absolutely no evidence that it did work. 

apart from the guy saying first hand that he noticed a benefit?  OK then, that's not enough for you maybe, but I'd give it a go before resorting to NHS quacks and chemicals.  

And how does the chap who is reporting this first hand account have any idea that the benefit he noticed can actually be attributed to the treatment in question and not something else?  

Perhaps he was going to get better anyway.
Perhaps he ate an over-ripe avocado and over-ripe avocado happens to contain a previously undiscovered cure for his condition.
Perhaps an earlier treatement he tried and decided doesn't work, actually did work.

I'm not saying he's doing it with malicious intent but the fact is,   there is no evidence of any connection between the two events.

Maybe I'm wrong... feel free to point out where the proof is  Wink



Edited by bustinben - 21 Dec 15 at 2:29pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Dec 14
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Posts: 2287 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 15 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by bustinben

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by bustinben

Originally posted by turnturtle

How is following some advice based on a 'I tried this ****, it worked for me, it might work for you' basis in anyway flawed decision making?    


Because there is absolutely no evidence that it did work. 

apart from the guy saying first hand that he noticed a benefit?  OK then, that's not enough for you maybe, but I'd give it a go before resorting to NHS quacks and chemicals.  

And how does the chap who is reporting this first hand account have any idea that the benefit he noticed can actually be attributed to the treatment in question and not something else?

I'm not saying he's doing it with malicious intent but the fact is,   there is no evidence of any connection between the two events.

Maybe I'm wrong... feel free to point out where the proof is  Wink


mate, there's clinical research to suggest a placebo is as a good as a cure if care to hunt the evidence on the internet hard enough.  

But you prove the guy who claims to feel better from it is 'wrong' before I justify he's right, which he is, if he feel better for it, who the hell are we to tell him it was probably the Toffee Crisp in the waiting room, not the treatment he's received?


Edited by turnturtle - 21 Dec 15 at 2:38pm
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