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Penalties
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3395 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Penalties
    Posted: 05 Jun 17 at 7:26pm
I do too, the trick is to assess the level of 'rule aggression' at the club/event you are taking part in and behave accordingly, I will be much less aggressive at a Wednesday night club race than I might at a National Championships because what would be considered fair at a Nationals might be considered a bit OTT at a club race. But I race for fun not to win an Olympic Gold. Paul Elvstrom nailed it when he said "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors." Nobody is going to lose the respect of the other competition in the ACWS by pushing the rules to the limit (though they would if they , say, used an foil or other piece of equipment they know to be illegal).
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 17 at 7:47pm
Sam S, try watching competetive Laser sailors to see rules abused and pushed to the limit.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 17 at 8:00pm
Mr Spoons, you are quite right about levels of competitiveness, and even in the same race, I'll judge whether someone is out to win or learning how to race, and behave differently. But ensuring you are on starboard when you meet another boat is hardly pushing any boundaries.
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 17 at 8:02pm
Sam S what kind of racing experience do you have?

Edited by ClubRacer - 05 Jun 17 at 8:21pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Rupert

Mr Spoons, you are quite right about levels of competitiveness, and even in the same race, I'll judge whether someone is out to win or learning how to race, and behave differently. But ensuring you are on starboard when you meet another boat is hardly pushing any boundaries.

Agreed, if it is someone I know is experienced and knows the rules then fair play (as I know most of my regular competitors will do the same to me in a heartbeat and we then have a chuckle about it afterwards).

If it is a less experienced person they get cut far more slack (and help/chat if needed).
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 10:58am
The rules are remarkably simple ... it is the application of them that is more confusing.

At the level that they are playing pushing the limits is to be expected, but we see this in any professional sport be it rugby, cycling, tennis, motor racing etc.

As one esteemed international judge lectured us at our club; if you know the rules you can make them work for you.

The opposite to this is that if you don't know them you are at a distinct disadvantage.

Truth is that the rules that are most relevant to most Club and open Meeting sailors, are "port and starboard", "windward boat" and "mark room", without a knowledge of these, chaos would ensue.  If you don't know these you probably should not be on the race course.

Interestingly, apart from procedure, these are also the main areas of interaction on the LV race course, though things happen a bit faster, and I don't have a protest button in the cockpit of my Solo.

Something I find quite alien is the opportunity to speak to the PRO and ask what the course is ... I usually scribble it on the deck!
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Sam S View Drop Down
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Posts: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 5:23pm
Love that quote: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."
Sam
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6644 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by Sam S

Love that quote: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."

Its *very* widely misused though. The great Elvstrom was by no means averse to sportsmanlike gamesmanship and making use of the rules to the limit.

Edited by JimC - 06 Jun 17 at 5:47pm
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Sam S

Using the rules to your advantage is IMHO 'bad sportsmanship'. 
Just because you can 'trip up' the other team to 'win' your race, does not mean that you won on an even footing. And that is my point.
If the race is about the skill of the team at sailing their boat the fastest, then we have a true representation of a team and boat.

Don't really see how using the RoW rules to control a competitor to your advantage is any different from hitting a tennis ball to your opponent's weaker side, or bowling the cricket ball in a fashion to try and get him/(her) out/not score runs. 

Boats in a sailing race interact at far greater angles than in any other form of racing. There aren't lanes, there isn't a motor racing racing line etc. 

Up to the last couple of ACs, the rules have evolved to reflect what happens on the water rather than vice versa. 
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ColH View Drop Down
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Posts: 242 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ColH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 6:35pm
I feel it depends on the context I.e, the type of competition:
Match racing is 'by definition' a one on one duel. ("I don't have a problem with it, the man was a pig" - sorry, watching Hunt For Red October too much!)
Team racing, similarly, is all about engineering the whole race to maximise your team's result. Without 'dirty tactics' it would be pretty meaningless and dull.
In club racing: it depends why you're there. If its to win a bottle of wine at any cost then be a feisty git ifyouwant. Or do it just for fun (the vast majority of us?) and make friends


Edited by ColH - 06 Jun 17 at 6:36pm
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