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Who can protest? |
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fleaberto
Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
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Topic: Who can protest? Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 3:38pm |
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Here's a thought......
Heading toward the finish with two boats clear in front of me - unsure if I'll catch them by the end to be fair but hey, i'll give it a go. The two ahead are locked in a tacking duel with me, as I said clearly behind - 5 boat lengths maybe? Going in to the line, boat A is on starboard, boat B on Port. Boat A calls 'Starboard!' quite clearly but boat B doesn't budge and A takes evasive action. Straightforward Port / Starboard. However, A doesn't protest - the 'evasive' action saw them remain ahead(even though it was a considerable manouvre). Now, B - in my mind, should have taken a 720 anyway, but didn't. Carrying on to the line ahead of me by around 2 maybe 3 lengths. If B had carried out the required 720, I'd have gained a place and a point and, quite possibly, a higher place overall. My question is, even though I wasn't directly infringed, could I have lodged a protest against B for not taking the required penalty? I did discuss this at length with the infringee post-race, the answer being: "Well, I'd have had nowhere to go" My reply being: "Tough, then you shouldn't have been there" Would I have been able to protest ands on what grounds? - is it as simple as I see it? -Straightforward Port/Starboard and no penalty taken? |
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Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays'
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GML
Groupie Joined: 24 Jul 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 94 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 3:55pm | |
You couldn't protest B for not taking the required penalty, but you could have protested him for breaking rule 10, since you saw the incident - see rule 60.1(a)
You would however have to hail "Protest" at the first reasonable opportunity (which in the circumstances your describe would be almost immediately after the incident) - you can't wait until he has failed to take a 2-turn penalty, and you certainly can't wait until you have come ashore and discussed it with him.
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:06pm | |
So as you saw the incident you may protest provided you have immediately hailed protest at the time. With the rules as they are waiting until its obvious that neither boat is going to do turns is too late for the protest to be valid. But if they were in the middle of a tacking duel then the result may not be a straightforward as one might think though. When A tacked onto starboard she acquired right of way. RRS15 says that when a boat acquires ROW she must initially give the other boat room to keep clear. If A didn't feel confident that she had given B room to keep clear after tacking then A was required to take evasive action and no rule was broken. It all depends on how long it is since S tacked. Another scenario where S might me required to evade port would be if the wind was shifting rapidly and a big lift put A on a collision course when sh was clear before. Edited by JimC - 01 Jul 15 at 4:07pm |
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fleaberto
Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:09pm | |
I did shout to B that they should do turns - (not 'Protest').
To be honest, I thought: "Hmnn, I'll get that place if I protest" (Seemed a bit Dick Dastardly) and I felt a bit more for the infringed rather than myself in reality....but it did just raise that question in my mind. Thanks for the clarification though. Jim, there was plenty of room. The tacking wasn't exactly Olympic match racing and B had plenty of room to see what was going on, where A was and what was likely to happen should they carry on. I understand the shift part but that didn't happen either. My feeling is that B suddenly froze when realizing "Oops, I've left that a bit late!" Edited by fleaberto - 01 Jul 15 at 4:16pm |
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Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays'
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:10pm | |
Doesn't cut the mustard. Protest must be the first thing you shout. Dumb rule, hopefully it will get changed some time. |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:13pm | |
Not only should you have protested boat B, but you should have had him thrown out of the club, banned from sailing for life and possibly thrown in jail for a year or 2. Bloomin' port tack boats, thinking they own the place...
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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fleaberto
Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:15pm | |
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Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays'
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GML
Groupie Joined: 24 Jul 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 94 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 5:01pm | |
There is no ISAF (or RYA) Case which says that the word "Protest" has to the be the first thing you shout, but the more you say before you use the word "Protest", and the longer you leave it, the more likely that your protest will be ruled invalid.
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 5:32pm | |
Yes, pretty sure if the first words are " ouch, that was my head, yout**t", protest could probably follow. Of course, these days you might get done for swearing, or something?
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Ben Gibson
Newbie Joined: 18 Aug 13 Location: Isle of Wight Online Status: Offline Posts: 3 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Jul 15 at 12:27am | |
Perhaps off topic.
If S had a lift and sailed to her VMG (CHC) does she break rule 16.1? |
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