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Moth ... no longer 11ft ...

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 15 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by JohnJack


Originally posted by Rupert

I asked about this at one time, and no rule changes were needed for the gantry or bowsprit. Apparently, there is no rule on the size of pintle's and gudgeons, and in a single sailed boat, I don't think it ever came to mind to ban bowsprits.

In a sense I still agree with the OP. It does seem to push the spirit of the rule, but if the actual sailors are happy, what has it to do with me, really. The 14 adding the snout support is similar, and to me, worse shifting of the length rules.

As for overall and waterline length, the Moth has always been an overall hull length. The lwl for a scow Moth is a fair amount less than 11 feet.

Where is the waterline on a foiler??


Either 11 feet or about 6 inches?
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17mika View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 17mika Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by 2547

With all that gubbins off the bow and stern the Moth is no long really an 11ft dinghy ...


Well bowsprits and gantrys have to be removable and do not increase buoyancy, so it's definetly hard to consider them as part of the hull lenght.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by 17mika

Originally posted by 2547

With all that gubbins off the bow and stern the Moth is no long really an 11ft dinghy ...


Well bowsprits and gantrys have to be removable and do not increase buoyancy, so it's definetly hard to consider them as part of the hull lenght.




You wouldn't be able to sail them very well without the bow sprite and gantry though ... so how is that relevant?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 5:10pm
You couldn't sail them without mast, sails or foils, either, but I know what you mean, part of a length rule is to test a designer's skills at creating something which works at the given length. Adding sticks at each end means you aren't doing that.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 5:25pm
All box rules are arbitary restrictions though. The Moth rules are framed so that the sticks at each end can't contribute to the hydrodynamics of the hull, which is a pretty reasonable measure of given length. Not that different to say spars overhanging the ends. Funny how the boom overhanging the stern* is something no-one seems bothered about, but the bowsprit overhanging the bow is a bit more serious..

[added later] * speaking generally that is. not specifically about Moths.

Edited by JimC - 17 Jun 15 at 8:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 5:33pm
I think it is all starting to look a bit of a contrivance ...

Although it certainly goes fast and the class is popular so I guess it is all gravy ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 7:08pm
What does it matter, none of its in the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 7:10pm
The only reason I can see for allowing the boom to overhang the transom is to allow it rest on it when the cover is on. Not something that has been an issue for Moths for several decades.

As I've said, I'm torn on all this. With my theory hat on, I think sticking to the 11 feet and having to work round that is very neat. But in reality, the way the Moths actually do it leads to better boats, still closely matched as all are using the same rule set, whatever it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 15 at 8:06pm
The moth rules started pretty simple - 11ft long, 88 sq ft sail, 17 ft luff, and all the
new rules ( with the exception of allowing wands ) are restrictions and not changes to the original ruleset. - ie limited max beam, no windsurfers, no catamarans, limited length for gantries and bowsprits, etc, etc.
A true development class - with no rule changes as such in the 30 or 40 years since the class was formed from the various moths around the world ( apart from the wands as mentioned) the PY has halved - from the same as a Solo to 550 ( or even lower at Hayling ).

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