Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
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In irons |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
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Topic: In irons Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 10:14pm |
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Because if an insurance company is going to apply colregs rather than RRS its a) in defiance of very well established legal precedent and b) puts us all in an impossible position, since we'd be under two sets of sometimes contradictory rules and would never know which ones to apply. This paper covers the legal detail. http://www.sailing.ca/files/Collisions_Final.pdf But under RRS stbd was wrong in causing a collision and as it was a collision that caused serious damage then the PC should have DSQd port under Rule 10 and rule 44.1 and stbd under rule 14. Thus sharing the blame is entirely rational under RRS. Edited by JimC - 17 Mar 15 at 10:23pm |
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fudheid
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 10:17pm | ||
How does the rrs DSQ ing two boats help to apportion blame? |
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Cheers you
only me from over the sea...... |
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fudheid
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 10:22pm | ||
Think you are getting confused by the basic colregs which supercede the rrs.All boats will avoid Contact? The rrs do not ever state that avoiding action should be taken
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Cheers you
only me from over the sea...... |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 10:25pm | ||
Good grief, when did you last read the RRS?
14 AVOIDING CONTACT A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room or mark-room (a) need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room or mark-room, and (b) shall be exonerated if she breaks this rule and the contact does not cause damage or injury. |
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fudheid
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 10:27pm | ||
1991,same year as everyone else in this forum.
😂 |
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Cheers you
only me from over the sea...... |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 10:34pm | ||
1989-92 Rules. 32.1 Avoiding Collisions. When a collision has resulted in serious damage, the right of way yacht shall be penalised as well as the other yacht when she had the opportunity but failed to make a reasonable attempt to avoid the collision.
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 11:00pm | ||
Just renewed with GJW again. Pretty sure they understand that we play a game that uses rrs, and are happy to use those rules. If anyone knows different, please let me know, as I have 7 boats with them...
Colregs are designed to keep boats as apart as possible. Most of what we do when Racing wouldn't be approved of in a narrow channel with boats going up and down, not racing. If colregs are brought in after the fact, then we are all screwed. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 15 at 11:44pm | ||
COLREGS aside, P broke rule 10 but if S took no action to avoid contact then S probably broke rule 14. Each boat broke a RRS rule. Not in the least surprising that each boat bore a portion of the liability.
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fudheid
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 9:00am | ||
it didn't matter what the protest committee found, in terms of pay out for damage. In rrrs terms we as port boat did our turns and so exonerated ourselves (is that bit right? do your turns and get a result, until protest committee hearing?)
we took avoiding action - although far too late as we did not see the starboard yacht, until she was on top of us. whether you call it RRS 14 or colreg. When insurance companies are arguing liabilities they will pick whatever terms suit them. The rules , protests and insurance claims are not as linked as you think. Like any insurance policy if they can wiggle they will wiggle. Be clear on this. why you all think i would be funny with an actual incident that caused a few thousand pounds worth of damage i do not know, i was trying to pass on the knowledge we gained from a racing incicdent. take that knowledge or stick your heads in the sand about what you think you are covered for. And no i was not the helmsman, we were shorthanded so had our heads in the boat at a major manouvere - it is no excuse; but just enough to lessen our liability.
thank you for reading this, wolves..... |
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Cheers you
only me from over the sea...... |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 11:18am | ||
I'm not sure it is your incident we are too fixed on - it appears blame was aportioned about right - but the idea that an insurance company might ignore with rules we are racing under and use the col regs instead. If you were the insurance company for an F1 team, and when there was a crash used the rules of public roads to decide who was to blame, I don't think the team would be very happy.
Now, if the F1 race was run on a public road and a race car hit a car that was going to the shops, or a lorry, then the race rules couldn't apply. At that point in sailing, colregs will come back in. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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