New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Radial kicker, how much is too much?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Radial kicker, how much is too much?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3023
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 11:12am
Originally posted by GybeFunny

I always thought block to block meant pull the mainsheet block to block and then take the slack out of the kicker. That is my default kicker setting in all wind conditions in my full rig.

That is the general rule of thumb for Laser kicker upwind.

For the slightly larger Laser sailor having the rear blocks a few inches apart can work well though (certainly always did for me).

As the wind builds and you find yourself getting over powered then wind on more kicker and cunningham. when you get to the point where you cannot deal with the power then ease the kick back to block to block and get more cunningham on. I used to brace my foot against the front of the cockpit and really pull it.

I did find that if you have the 'cascade' style cunningham you would run out of travel before you got enough on though.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
bustinben View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 288
Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 11:41am
Depends on the sea state and what you're trying to do with the boat.  I'm not sure there's such thing as "too much", it just depends whether you need to use that mast and sail for another event or not...

My max tends to be so that the boom block is just scraping the deck, but like I said, it depends what you're trying to do.

Yanking on kicker flattens the middle of the sail nicely by bending the mast but drags the COE back quite a lot. also makes tacking trickier as it's harder to get under the boom and you have to dump armfuls of sheet to get the boat to bear away out of the tack.

Downhaul pulls the COE forwards, and flattens the whole sail but also really opens the leech, especially at the top of the sail.

Choose your poison depending on the conditions and whether you're trying to foot or go high, and on whether you prefer buying masts or sails (kicker = new mast, downhaul = new sail).

Also bear in mind that the standard rig is significantly different to the radial.  You can't apply standard rig tuning rules to the radial and go fast.
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3023
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 12:59pm
Good point Ben, I always found the Radial needed less kicker (then again I am a big guy to be sailing a radial so only ever did it when it was howling).
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
piglet View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 04 Jan 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 493
Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 2:20pm
Ben says 'My max tends to be so that the boom block is just scraping the deck'
 
Is there tension on the mainsheet when the boom block is touching the deck?
I don't think our kicker will do that even with the kicker blocks blocked.
Ben are you talking radial or full?
 
How much should the bottom section bend? Ours is a Rooster, maybe it's too stiff?
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3023
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by piglet

Ben says 'My max tends to be so that the boom block is just scraping the deck'
 
Is there tension on the mainsheet when the boom block is touching the deck?
I don't think our kicker will do that even with the kicker blocks blocked.
Ben are you talking radial or full?
 
How much should the bottom section bend? Ours is a Rooster, maybe it's too stiff?

I never managed to get either my radial or full rig down that far.

Managed it with the 8.1 but the mast is that bit longer so there is more flex in it.

Didn't stand a chance getting under the boom though!
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
bustinben View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 288
Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by piglet

Ben says 'My max tends to be so that the boom block is just scraping the deck'
 
Is there tension on the mainsheet when the boom block is touching the deck?
I don't think our kicker will do that even with the kicker blocks blocked.
Ben are you talking radial or full?
 
How much should the bottom section bend? Ours is a Rooster, maybe it's too stiff?

I'm talking radial.  At max kicker the mainsheet blocks will have zero tension pulling down on the boom, only sideways in and out.  The boom actually goes out a bit when you pull this much kicker on because the two blocks are no longer anywhere near vertical, so the boom can't come in as far as when the boom is higher (if you get what I mean).

I should add a disclaimer here:  if you pull this much kicker on, you WILL bend your bottom section permanently, and it will no longer be as fast in max power conditions.  It will also no longer pass measurement.  So it's not recommended in most circumstances (but the question was what the max is).  Also, if you're not fast already, there will be bigger gains in speed to be made through technique, and that don't involve ruining your mast.

If you want to see what this looks like, Marit was using roughly this amount of kicker in the windier bits of the olympic medal race. I can't find any stills from the onboard footage unfortunately. Closest I can find is this shot of Annalise:
http://www.sail-world.com/photos_2012_3/Alt_Sailing2012m_M59181.jpg

Marit was using another small yank on it than that (not surprising that she needed to depower more, given how much lighter she is)


P.S your kicker will be able to do this, if the blocks are locking out it just needs a bit of adjustment.  The double block should be near the top block at max off.  That will give you enough travel to seriously ruin your rig.  

Edit: I should add - most people sail with a purchase dropped from the kicker.  I don't know if it's possible to pull that much kicker on if you're using all the available purchases.


Edited by bustinben - 17 Oct 14 at 7:46pm
Back to Top
piglet View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 04 Jan 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 493
Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 9:36pm
Thanks Ben that's very helpful, I think this photo of Marit shows what you are trying to describe with the mainsheet blocks:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DEtDDd0zgwk/Ts4j4O9jNcI/AAAAAAAAAmU/I-1PTOa9hK8/s1600/Marit+Boumeester.JPG
What the photo doesn't show is the amount of boom bend she is carrying.
I really need to get hold of a legal bottom section and try it again, taking note of your warning.
With current set up I can put horrific boom bend on but the blocks are still no where near each other.
I will check position of the double block at max off, interesting what you say about dropping a purchase out, are there any photos that show this?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy