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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 1:57am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

I had in mind the Warning would be the 6, and the Prep the 3....

Previous classes 3 would be the next's 6, and so on.

That's going to run into trouble with rule 26 last sentence:

The warning signal for each succeeding class shall be made with or after the starting signal of the preceding class.

If you go for 3 minutes do this:

-3 min Warning Signal with one sound
-2 min Preparatory Signal with one sound
-1 min Remove Preparatory Signal with one (long) sound
0- min Remove Warning Signal, display next warning signal with one sound.

To simplify RC boat timing, take a look at this app


it allows you do create a fully scriptable talking clock, with jumbo display.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 6:35am
Thanks, Brass, but we will already have to state in our SI's that we are derogating from R.26 to get away from 5-4-1-Go, so we can just derogate from that aspect of Rule 26 too surely?

I'm pretty certain that the Laser 3000 Nats in 2004 were started with just 6-3-Go signals just 3 minutes behind the 2000's in a rolling sequence of starts.

Actually, that regatta was a good example of why you don't want to use the system for big events - as a good boy I kept well clear of the starting area until after the 2k start, then struggled to make the line in light airs for all the turbulence off the earlier starters. Not a problem for our club racing where the boat density will be minimal by comparison (fewer boats, very long line the width of the river)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 6:53am
With a rolling 6-3-Go, with no 1 minute, when does the Prep signal come down so it can be raised for the next class?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Thanks, Brass, but we will already have to state in our SI's that we are derogating from R.26 to get away from 5-4-1-Go, so we can just derogate from that aspect of Rule 26 too surely?

I'm pretty certain that the Laser 3000 Nats in 2004 were started with just 6-3-Go signals just 3 minutes behind the 2000's in a rolling sequence of starts.

Some regatta 10 years ago hardly indicates best practice for 2014.

Certainly, you can amend rule 26 and other relevant rules in your SI, but:
  1. IMHO, overlapping Warning and Preparatory periods for successive starts is introducing an unnecessary complication, which may cause confusion and difficulties, especially if you go into postponment or a general recall (and, in that case, will lose you unnecessary time), and has no real advantage:  as you observed, everyone has starting watches, so it's not as if they needed a six minute warning to pull out his lordships golden hunter.
  2. You need a Warning Signal, Preparatory Signal and a Starting Signal, and, unless you intend to completely abandon any use of Black Flag, Z Flag, or U Flag, you really need a One Minute Signal as well.  3, 2, 1 Go achieves this, and all you need to do is amend the numbers in the first column of rule 26.
  3. Anything else is going to require very careful work to amend the dependent rules:  if you go that route, take the text search to your copy of the RRS, and search for Warning Signal, Preparatory Signal, and Starting Signal, and work out what amendments will be necessary for each of the rules that you find.  Bear in mind that you will be changing the ground-rules for your pin boat and mark boat crews.
Whats wrong with the simple 3 minute cycle (bearing mind that you can use Orange Flag Down/Orange Flag up to give advance warning of the first starting sequence.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Brass

...on a warm dry committee vessel,


!!! If only. The one time I was doing it it was on a wet windy day in an estuary in the South west, with half the crew mildly seasick on the only boat I've ever been on which seemed to be able to roll and pitch in at least 4 dimensions at once... My inland club is probably fairly typical - we have about a 18foot fishing boat type with no electricity, no heating and an unlined cuddy in which hopefully the results sheet doesn't get too damp to write on. 'Sorebones' it is not!

And we don't use Z U or black flag (ore even I) for club racing, and revert to 5-4-1-go for open events where we might need the extra sanction.

Edited by JimC - 21 Aug 14 at 9:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 11:11am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Brass

...on a warm dry committee vessel,


!!! If only. The one time I was doing it it was on a wet windy day in an estuary in the South west, with half the crew mildly seasick on the only boat I've ever been on which seemed to be able to roll and pitch in at least 4 dimensions at once... My inland club is probably fairly typical - we have about a 18foot fishing boat type with no electricity, no heating and an unlined cuddy in which hopefully the results sheet doesn't get too damp to write on. 'Sorebones' it is not!

And we don't use Z U or black flag (ore even I) for club racing, and revert to 5-4-1-go for open events where we might need the extra sanction.

Glad to see they're biting down your way.


Edited by Brass - 21 Aug 14 at 11:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 11:35am
For clubs that are doing multiple starts every week, it is definitely worthwhile investing in equipment to make life easier for the once/twice a year ROs. Having a nice large clear countdown timer should be a priority. A large laminated "order of events" poster would be a good idea- including recall procedure. If using flags on cross trees it would be best to have enough halyards so that every flag needed can be attached before commencing the sequence, perhaps with labels to show which flag should be attached where.

An auto-horn could be a good idea- if using 3-2-1-Go it can be simple, just hooting every minute- but remember a manual-hoot function for recalls.

Keep it simple!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 12:33pm
Back in the olden days, we had 10,5 go, and the next class starting 5 mins later. Class flag up on 10, Blue Peter on 5, both down on go. I remember when clubs nearby started shortening that to 6,3,go, but the flag order stayed the same, but our club thought that a horrible, new fangled idea.
Wouldn't a black flag go up at the 3 minute in the 6-3?
These days, the rules will be set around the 5,4,1,go idea, but they really don't have to be if you don't want that.
Not a fan of 5,4,1,go. When rear com sailing at Whitefriars, I introduced a bell at approx 10 mins, to allow cups of tea to finished before the 5 (or, strictly, the 4). 1 minute is not enough for a quick wee, either! Been using it for 10 years now, I think!
Also, same flag is up from 5-4 as 1-0. All very well saying people should be organized enough to know which it is, but it can easily catch out less experienced sailors (and me...)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Back in the olden days, we had 10,5 go, and the next class starting 5 mins later. Class flag up on 10, Blue Peter on 5, both down on go.

Nah, P stayed up continuously.  If you Used the I flag, you flew it in addition to P, and dropped the I flag at the One Minute.

 I remember when clubs nearby started shortening that to 6,3,go, but the flag order stayed the same, but our club thought that a horrible, new fangled idea.
Wouldn't a black flag go up at the 3 minute in the 6-3? 

Presumably, but when does it come down?  does it get a sound signal?

These days, the rules will be set around the 5,4,1,go idea, but they really don't have to be if you don't want that.
Not a fan of 5,4,1,go. When rear com sailing at Whitefriars, I introduced a bell at approx 10 mins, to allow cups of tea to finished before the 5 (or, strictly, the 4). 1 minute is not enough for a quick wee, either! Been using it for 10 years now, I think!
Also, same flag is up from 5-4 as 1-0. All very well saying people should be organized enough to know which it is, but it can easily catch out less experienced sailors (and me...)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 3:39pm
Nope, they both came down on the gun, right or wrong. If there was another class starting 5 mins later, it was dipped. Can remember clearly, left hand on one flag, right on the other. Big pull. We also used to hoist the flags rolled so that a small tug would have them flying exactly on time. Most disappointed when I went to another club and they simply pulled them up on the hoot. That was the point for me where the noise started to mean more than the flag, whatever the rules say. 
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