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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Chris 249



So the world's biggest class is doing it wrong?


Yes and yes it is doing it wrong, why do you even ask?

Because there is no logically valid evidence that it is doing it wrongly.  If it was doing it wrongly, it wouldn't be the biggest (or second biggest) class in the world.

And no, personal opinions are not evidence. And nor is concentrating on what is happening in one extremely unusual, although very interesting, market.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 1:58pm
You miss the point, Chris. What the thousands who sail Lasers think is irrelevant. The only test of whether something is being done correctly or not is what GRF thinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 2:19pm
Instead of stressing about minor tweaks that might be made, laser sailors will be stressing about minor technique changes to offset the bits that are wrong, so just a different set of obsessions.

I can see why the mainsheet catching thing isn't changed now, but why didn't they on the prototype? Same with the rudder.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Same with the rudder.

The rudder was pretty reasonable by the standards of the day as I recall. Remember most classes back then had raked back rudders that were really heavy and nasty. I don't recall it being an issue back then. We even balanced boats differently back then with more load on the centreboard and less on the rudder.

Edited by JimC - 02 Jul 16 at 8:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 8:38am
Why the obsession with the laser rudder? We discovered an amazing technique to deal with it. You keep the f*****g boat flat.

Who'd have thought?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 11:13am
Good argument to rake them more perhaps ... it would then really really reward those with the 'best technique' of course.   It all makes total sense.    Perhaps other classes should adopt it as well ... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 11:37am
Originally posted by GarethT

Why the obsession with the laser rudder? We discovered an amazing technique to deal with it. You keep the f*****g boat flat.

Who'd have thought?


See, obsess on technique, not on technology. Some classes improve one, end the other. Mind, flat works better on most boats, really, whatever the rudder rake.

As a beach boat designed for people who aren't skilled enough to be flat in a force 4, say, a change might have been good, but by the standards of the early 70s, at least it wasn't flat sided.

I know the corners of the transom are no bother to those who have honed their technique, but for a beginner, or a beginner racer, gybing can be hair raising enough without adding in a hook. Why no change there? A simple stick on corner solved it, I believe, but was never allowed in class rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ventus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 11:51am
I am sure I read once that not making the laser proper centre main was Bruce kirby s only regret when he designed it. Think the reason was cost.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 16 at 12:15am
Originally posted by GarethT

Why the obsession with the laser rudder? We discovered an amazing technique to deal with it. You keep the f*****g boat flat.

Who'd have thought?

But even when the boat is sailed flat, or heeled to windward, there is still more load on the rudder than if it had more balance.

There would have been even more rake, and hence even more weight on the tiller, if Ian Bruce hadn't moved the pivot point after Bruce Kirby designed the rudder, as Ian told me when I was researching for this post and this post. They spent a lot of time working on balance when creating the standard Laser and the Radial rig so it's apparent that the decision to have a fairly heavy rudder was conscious, not an accident. It must have been a reaction to the tastes of an earlier generation, as others have noted.

None of the Laser guys mentioned a centre mainsheet to me. They must increase sheet loading and the boom certainly isn't strong enough at the moment (as I proved when I sailed the foiling Laser and broke the boom, which had been changed to centre sheeting to allow for faster trimming; the Glide guys were aware of the problem and had done it themselves).

I didn't ask about the infamous corners; I think Bruce Kirby has admitted failing to address that was an oversight.

(note to mods; my apologies if linking to a blog is not allowed; tell me and I'll remove the links and not post any more).


Edited by Chris 249 - 03 Jul 16 at 1:33am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 16 at 5:08am
Laser booms broke fairly frequently in the early days in the UK anyway, albeit at the kicking strap. I wonder if in those days when transom mains were still pretty common the sheet and corners were less of am issue too.
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