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How wide is to wide ?

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Oct 05 at 1:41pm

How wide would you like your cat to be (if towing was not an issue)

1/2 the length is the old Rule-of-thumb.   

I am thinking wider might be better if you have a kite as it gives you some lift.

What do you thing ?

 

 



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Tornado_ALIVE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tornado_ALIVE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 05 at 4:05pm
Gives some lift but also ability to drive harder......  Safer to stick with 12 LOA rule
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 05 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE

Gives some lift but also ability to drive harder......  Safer to stick with 12 LOA rule


I assume you mean 1/2 LOA

But what about with the addition of T foil rudders ?

Seriously thinking about making the new boat 10 feet wide......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Noble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 05 at 10:57am
what did you mean by it gives some lift?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 05 at 2:29pm

Originally posted by Chris Noble

what did you mean by it gives some lift?

 

When the kite is flying it gives some lift. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tornado_ALIVE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 05 at 1:43pm

Some but not much......  Kite is very flat compared to skiff kites.

T foil rudders are slow when fixed and your trim is not right.  On the I14s I sailed on the T foils were adjustable.  I believe though, that foils to change the pitch of a boat causes excessive drag.  Best to practice correct big breeze trapezing techniques and driving.  If you are forced to use foils to maintain the pitch of a boat, the boat has some manufactured problems ie beam to wide or too much power for, fore aft righting momentem.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 05 at 6:22pm
Stephen,
 
I don't agree.
 
The one thing that slows cats down is having to ease off becasue you have run out of bow.  Yes T's do add a little drag (or a lot if they are set wrong).  But if they allow you to press harder (after you have "Best to practice correct big breeze trapezing techniques and driving") then you will be able to go faster down wind.
 
I've yet to sail a T-foiul boat, but judging from what people say they love them and they allow you to drive harder (and so faster) down wind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jalani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 05 at 9:27pm
What T foils DO allow you to do is drive off really hard in a gust without burying (or not burying much) and therefore being able to gain lots of distance to leeward at speed. The boat becomes very responsive without the rudders losing 'grip' and the foils hold the bows up when they would normally dive.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tornado_ALIVE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 05 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

they allow you to drive harder (and so faster) down wind. 

Drive harder does not necessarily mean faster......  More load on the rig / platfrom plus more drag.  More power sailing like Hobie 18 compared to efficiency like an A Class.

This is just my personal opinion which is based on no real research other than boats I have sailed before and how they felt to me.  Therefore I may be wrong, but have the manufactures using these rudders actually tank tested them.  And why don't you see them in other development classes including the C Class which is at the forefront of technology.

I would love to take an F16 without foils downwind (and around the course) in a variety of wind strenghts / sea state against an F16 with foils and compare boat speed.  This I hope would answer some questions.  I personaly question weather T foils are benificial.  I also believe you can settle a boat and drive a boat hard (and faster) through improved sailing techneques and reading what the boat is and will do, earlier.

In summary, I do believe T foils would help reduce pitching a little, but the resulting drag and compramised performance when the T foils are not needed would far out weigh any small benifit they may have.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jalani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 05 at 3:01pm

I agree with you Stephen, the T foils do create some additional drag. However, whilst this is a problem in low wind speeds (2 - 10 knots), I do feel that the benefits vastly outweigh the disadvantages in 12 knots plus. The answer: two sets of rudders!

Seriously, having experienced T foils, I'd not go back. Sailing downwind with them, in a blow, fully powered up with the kite pulling is just so fantastic! You can't help but get off the boat with a great big cheesy grin at the ride you've just had whilst everyone else has been down the mine and broken stuff!

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