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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 11:41pm
The RSX was another manufacturers version of a back of a fag packet design a few of us distributors cobbled together to try and save the Mistral Class from extinction, it's a long and complicated tale riddled with politics, corruption and the usual shenanigans surrounding Olympic product selection. However, it was an innovation at the time, an idea of mine as it happens, not that I'd expect anyone here to believe it, but the idea was to try and have a product that every man could instantly sail yet could be used at Olympic level, that idea got lost in the transmission from Mistral Prodigy (which the Mistral Class Association rejected) to the Neil Pryde RSX and what you have now is an expensive white elephant which will vanish from the face of existence as fast as the Mistral One Design did the moment it loses Olympic status.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 11:50pm
Most of the CA's that I've belonged to have been happy to see steady development.  Weight reduction and revised foils for the Snipe - a class that already permits considerable freedom in rigging, and weight reduction and the introduction of trapeze and genoa and a bigger kite in the Hornet (that dates me!); crikey, even the Laser 2 CA was more innovative than the manufacturer who resisted change.  Many on here have accused the 3k CA of being too innovative; without the CA, the 3k sails would have remained very '90's and the V3k would have been much more similar to the L3k - the builder was grateful for our input.

Which CAs have you belonged to that stifle development, Grumph?  I don't deny there are some, I'd just like to know your personal experiences.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 11:51pm
My understanding from someone at NP, was that they had prototyped a new RS:X v2 - lighter, planes earlier and would have put a more modern iteration of their slalom race sail on it... The guy, who was no real fan of the RS:x said it was massive improvement that he believed had potential as a recreational club racer in the way the RS:x currently doesn't.

But the CA rejected it! I hope they enjoy Rio - it's their last one....
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 14 at 12:16am
I 'belonged' to the Original Windsurfer Class Association, ran the class mag, they threatened to sue me for using the word Windsurfer in the title so I shortened it to Windsurf which I later sold to Ocean Publications of Dinghy & Boardsailing fame.They refused every innovation, even to this day I believe they still have a one piece mast which makes shipping Internationally prohibitively expensive, but the convicts still have a local builder so it is still in existence down under and I believe it did eventually get the retracting centreboard and boom made of something other than wood, (years too late) although unlikely they went to carbon.

I belonged to and helped develop the Mistral Class Association which thrived all through the eighties on sponsorship money I managed to prevent falling into the hands of the RYA, by not going to the Olympics personally. (I would have had to give them ownership of the funding and they would tell me what I'd do to get access to it, like I'd take longer than two seconds considering that one.) When the class eventually did fall into the hands of 'them' it lasted a couple of years then failed. The Interntional class (now influenced and part funded by the IYRU) rejected the Mistral Prodigy which might have kept them in the Olympic ball game, but by then politics were not favouring the new corporate owners and they didn't know how the Olympic "lobbying" game was played.
I also belonged to the UKBSA for many years, mainly to keep my sail no, but I haven't done one of their championships since my daughter and I went in 1999 and we both won our separate classes, funnily enough I came across the trophies this very day, my Mrs is chucking them out along with dozens of others, we're moving house.

Edited by iGRF - 27 Sep 14 at 12:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jeepers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 14 at 12:57am
By Jove....too many letters to read at this time of a Saturday morning. Succinct, plain English, to the point, beer language pls... good night!
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 14 at 8:55am
Originally posted by iGRF

[QUOTE=Medway Maniac]
Class assns do a lot for builders, not least by organising events which provide a reason for buying the boat.  Just ask a builder. 
No class assn, no opens, no nationals.  Not that you dare appear at either of course after your drubbing at your first.


You're a little bitch tonight, tell me, what have you ever won? Some 'National Championship' of two dozen boats? Make you a National Champion does it? Big Hero? You people and you're silly value structure.

QUOTE]

These sort of idiotic posts are why so many good sailors have left this forum.

The only good thing about it is that MM didn't even bother to dignify it with a response.

Such comments from someone who even admits to still grasps the basics of dinghy sailing/racing are ridiculous.

As a club sailor who will apparently never travels or competes in anything other than local handicap races, what right is there to even question the ability or achievements of other sailors ?

If I played at a sport at which I was not much good but constantly moaned about the equipment, the regulating bodies, other competitors, how unfair it all was etc etc - I'd just do something else and let those who enjoy it and are good at it to get on with it ?



Edited by rich96 - 27 Sep 14 at 9:05am
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 14 at 9:11am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Null

Graeme you need to understand that in most cases builders come and go but class associations continue To keep the flame alive.  You may not like it, but 99% of the dinghy world do!

99% Of the Dingy world is obviously wrong then, which comes as no surprise to me. It would be like Ford (Insert appropriate model)Owners all saying you can't change that car or make it faster because we'll all have to buy new ones. No surprise builders come and go if they can't upgrade their product because a bunch of luddite tightwads don't want to have to buy a new one.

Those Supernovas would rock with a proper rig.

Really poor analogy Graeme, first of all a ford car is a passenger vehicle built to meet a families needs.  There are no racing regs designed to make it fair for everyone.

However if you decided to race your ford, in say a Ford Fiesta cup, you would almost certainly have a more complexed set of rules to work too, be governed by.

It amazes me that you get so stressed about some bullsh*t printed about a class py, that actually has no bearing to what the end py will end up being, talking about how unfair it is. But you would be happy to a manufacturer to make your chosen class be out of date two weeks after purchase, by changing the rule set without consulting the membership.  Good class associations work alongside the builders, in a partnership.  In most cases class associations are non profit organisations that look after the administration of the class so builders can actually make a profit without worrying about rule sets, running championships etc.


Edited by Null - 27 Sep 14 at 9:17am
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 14 at 9:35am
Grumph, I suggest you ring Richard or Mark Hartley today and ask them if they'd relish the Wayfarer and Osprey CA's disbanding. Or Winders re. the Fireball or Merlin CA's. No, on second thoughts, don't waste their time.

I think I finally get where you're coming from. You don't want to sail at class events so the only major reason you'd value a CA is for its helping to maintain second-hand prices. But that advantage is as nothing to you compared to having the freedom to mess about with the design, right?

OK, fair enough, but I don't think that is a majority view, so don't expect to go anywhere with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 14 at 10:04am
Originally posted by iiitick

I fail to understand why GRF bothers with racing at all. If there are no identical boats, or at least they change every year because the manufacturer decides on a whim to make them faster, then racing is pointless. You could of course handicap those newer boats making the exercise of improvement pointless as well.

Obviously his best bet is to get any old out of class boat and race alone against the clock. Then he could be his own class association (of one) and have a Nationals every week if he so wished. He would need a class insignia of course....can anybody suggest one? 

The EPS has no class association, no builder, no opens and no Nationals (as far as I know). Seems perfect for Mr Fuller........so why is he selling it? Or rather not selling......If it had a builder, opens, class association, Nationals etc....then it may be of interest to others and sell!
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 14 at 10:09am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Medway Maniac


Class assns do a lot for builders, not least by organising events which provide a reason for buying the boat.  Just ask a builder. 
No class assn, no opens, no nationals.  Not that you dare appear at either of course after your drubbing at your first.


You're a little bitch tonight, tell me, what have you ever won? Some 'National Championship' of two dozen boats? Make you a National Champion does it? Big Hero? You people and you're silly value structure.
.

Really ... 
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