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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

]I think it's probably a lot harder than we think.

When I worked in the bike trade it was a source of enduring mystery to us at the shops I worked in how often the magazine reviewers used to rave about things we regarded as being horrible dogs, and were distinctly unenthused about bikes we thought were great...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 12:55pm
I was thinking about this thread over the weekend and came to the conclusion that the change in Y&Y is due to the change in our sport rather than just change for it's own sake. I would guess that we over enthusiastic bimblers and racers are out numbered by the casual sailor, who will do the odd RYA course, go on sailing holidays and doesn't own or want to own a boat, but won't be at the club or in the workshop physically most of the time and mentally all the time. So, in order to reach viable numbers the management of Y&Y knows it must cater for all tastes, even if they don't want to do so? I think in those terms Y&Y is probably doing as well as it is able while reaching break even. We forumites are probably a very small proportion of the readership and yet our noise may suggest differently, I fear, it is not so.
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 1:42pm
I think the changes to the magazine are driven by commercial needs- ad revenues are down, you need to sell more space for the same return.  This bloats the mag and forces an editorial direction towards advertorial.  

I think the future for the printed mag in its current format is really rather limited.  Who needs another lifestyle magazine?  You get them free on Sundays.  A monthly magazine full of re-hashed press releases, old event reports and advertorial just to meet current subscriber expectations isn't going to set the world on fire.    I bet they're desperate for original content.

A dinghy bi-annual or maybe quarterly under the Y&Y master banner would awesome- a proper kit review, with proper tests across the boats and bits we use.  A technical section for rigging and tuning.  Rules update section.    Highlights from the best championships and town regattas.  INterviews with the rising stars, the builders and sail makers-  and the amateurs leading the fleets (rather than just the RYA squad tis n' teeth brigade on their quest for minor celebrity.)  Stagger that with another programme for racing yachts, also under the same master banner- plus special editions in Olympic years (more tits n' teeth) and you'd have a portfolio worthy of the Y&Y legacy.



Edited by yellowwelly - 07 Oct 13 at 1:45pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 2:43pm
The problem as I see it, like a lot of businesses right now, they are probably just pedalling ever harder to stand still, they won't have excesses of staff or marketing cash to chuck around on things like tests, they're expensive, difficult to organise, potentially lethal for ad revenue (if you at all do the right thing for your readership)and after five years of recession not something any business minded type would risk.

Even the wind and kite surf game are restricted in the testing they offer these days, not least because of the expense of overseas travel.

So, what is the solution?

Well in a way if you remember what I was suggesting before we turned it into the forum open meeting, was kind of a mass demo/boat test event. What they (Y&Y) should do, is organise along the lines of the snowboard tests and the old Boards @ Bewl event, a day or weekend at the res of their choice (somewhere nice and somewhere folk can sling up a tent or camp in a pikey van.

Get all the purveyors of half decent boats along (ban GP14's. Solo's etc ) then let us go try them, with maybe a couple of races chucked in to simulate race conditions. Get everyone to fill out a review/questionaire, score them all on points for performance, handling etc and hey presto, the article is written around the event, photo opportunity, test carried out by target market, advertisers can't argue, publish multiple opinions about the boats and give information about the height, weight and experience of all those who actively take part.

How difficult could it be?

What could possibly go wrong?

Edited by iGRF - 07 Oct 13 at 2:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 3:01pm
Grafham is not 'somewhere nice'

Somewhere nice is like Roadford res down the west country.

Bewl even on a good day,

Derwent. (The res not the lakes)

Coniston

Rutland.

That bit of water they hold the Lord Birket on and hand out tablets to cure nosebleeds for us southerners.

It would need to be big water, I think it's the sort of thing that would have mass appeal if handled right.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 3:08pm
great.... get to travel to go sail on someone else's duck pond.  m'eh.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 3:09pm
surely what Graeme's just described is essentially ramped up, commercialised Sail Fest?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 3:55pm
Sail Fest? That's just another race, all you have is racing, nobody to my knowledge does demo days and they certainly don't do mass boat tests which is what I'm suggesting.

This is a mass boat test, they get the kit there, we rock up, test it, write it up, the mag collates it all and publishes an annual, we used to do it every year, late spring for the Snowboard test.

You 'invite' participation from all levels, shops, team riders, mag pundits, punters, they write a little bio so if you're reading it you pick the guy or girl most like you and read what they think, we learned this method from the dogmatic days of Boards Magazine having the same folk testing stuff and producing the same results which body and skill wise might not relate to you and your weight, skill level. It worked quite well.

The dinghy market is constrained because it is run by bloody dinghy sailors, who do things the way they are because they've always been done that way, they persuade the people they meet to do the same old same old and so the sorry mess that you exist within perpetuates. Something has to break that mould, so new stuff gets a look in, without all that tut tutting 'ooh can't sail that, there arn't enough other sheep sailing it in a class'. Attitudes need to change, Get some public opinion going, let these t**sers making this plastic crap know they can't get away with calling it the same as the real thing, let the market drive the builders for a change not the other way around like it's always been. Relieve the mag from the pressure 'they' apply and get some 'truths' in print, they can always get their own jockeys to spout the company line, but equally there will be someone elses view saying some of the things we all know get missed.

Only a crusading magazine can do all that.

A mag with balls.

Anyone know one?

Edited by iGRF - 07 Oct 13 at 4:03pm
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by iGRF



Only a crusading magazine can do that.

A mag with balls.

Anyone know one?

No, we don't need one.  We're dinghy sailors, quite happy with our dreamy idylls and gentle reviews of versatile, family friendly boating products to 'unwind' and while away the hours in a quintessentially English harbour location.   Naturally we may slum it once in a while on a Mark Warner holiday for some 'activities for the kids', but that's only when the Carruther's chalet in Verbier was already fully booked and we missed our ski trip, and to be frank, we've run out of time to find a decent Villa in Kefalonia.

These are the images of sailing advertisers.  They are the customers of the magazine.  The reader is the product upon which the magazine sells its wares- the circulation for want of the old school word.

Yes there are ramshackled old sailing clubs lining the less salubrious parts of the coast, barely keeping themselves out of the red as the numbers of hardened seafolk who they once called members find other things to do with their time and their kids go kitesurfing, or bully each other on Facebook.

There are also run down prefab buildings and overgrown boat parks on the edges of lakes and reservoirs- also known sailing clubs- locked behind wrought iron railings to try and prevent the local scallies from nicking bits off the boats to sell down the scrap yard.   If you find a good one it will have showers, some even have hot water.

The real face of dinghy sailing just doesn't look right in a middle class world of Johnny Boden and Cath Kidston print.... so in turn, it doesn't deliver on expectations, especially when the 'endless summer' of leisure marine advertorial never bloody starts in the first place. 

Read a Pinnell and Bax blog entry about a sh*tty day on Carsington, or flick through the Rooster catalogue to find out how to stop your knees going pop...  that's real dinghy sailing, sadly it doesn't make such a good lifestyle magazine.





Edited by yellowwelly - 07 Oct 13 at 4:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly



 We're dinghy sailors,


Exactly.
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