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Which Clubs use modified PY numbers

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    Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 3:55pm
Which Clubs use a modified list? 

Are these clubs greater in number than say 4 yrs ago?

Which clubs that modify publish their list online? (I'd love to have a butchers)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote marke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 4:15pm
Starcross YC do - we are just starting the third year of local adjustments

We review them every year in late August and apply them from the start of our Autumn Series in October each year.  The analysis compares the data collected in the previous year against the RYA numbers, the Great Lakes numbers and our entire database going back 4 years.  We also do an analysis based on the top sailors in each fleet. [Once the RYA releases the "clubs like mine" facility on PYS we will build our own custom group of similar clubs].

The numbers we use are shown on our results pages - but when I update the numbers in our race management database this month I'll sort out a page on the website with a list of them.

We are a little bit tidal so as you might expect in general the faster boats go down a bit and the slower boats go up a bit - we don't analyse it that way, its just how the numbers pop out.  The Laser and Laser Radial have the biggest change from the RYA numbers - but are close (a bit faster) than the Great Lakes numbers.  The difference between our numbers and the RYA used to be quite big, but they have got narrower since the PYS related approach has been adopted and the RYA numbers have moved closer to our locally adjusted ones (with the exception of the Laser).

Mark


Edited by marke - 02 Sep 13 at 4:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 4:20pm
Draycote don't, despite some desire from some quarters to experiment with it.  (why not?)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 4:28pm
Rutland do 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 4:33pm
Island Barn Reservoir do. Just for a few classes where we have reasonable data. The latest RYA numbers are tending to approach our numbers: the divergance is reducing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 4:52pm
Jim, if you adjust for some (where you have the evidence) but boats which were having close racing with the ones you have adjusted (maybe against the run of other results) don't have the numbers to warrent a change, what do you do?

I suppose an example which might happen (just to try and make myself clear) is that if you have lots of Solos and just a couple of Lightnings, which get close results, and are close on handicap. The Solo results, though, are too good - the handicap needs a reduction to fit in with the other big fleets - say Lasers and 200's. If you leave the Lightning where it is, due to lack of numbers, suddenly you would have shifted the goalposts for 2 very close boats.

Do you have a solution to this?

I can see it happening in the winter meetings, where I think the Solo has gone the other way. If I arrive in the Lightning, expecting to find I have a close race with the Solos, but then find they have been moved up 20 points, but mine is still the same due to a lack of results. I'd be somewhat miffed.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Jim, if you adjust for some (where you have the evidence) but boats which were having close racing with the ones you have adjusted (maybe against the run of other results) don't have the numbers to warrent a change, what do you do?I suppose an example which might happen (just to try and make myself clear) is that if you have lots of Solos and just a couple of Lightnings, which get close results, and are close on handicap. The Solo results, though, are too good - the handicap needs a reduction to fit in with the other big fleets - say Lasers and 200's. If you leave the Lightning where it is, due to lack of numbers, suddenly you would have shifted the goalposts for 2 very close boats.Do you have a solution to this? I can see it happening in the winter meetings, where I think the Solo has gone the other way. If I arrive in the Lightning, expecting to find I have a close race with the Solos, but then find they have been moved up 20 points, but mine is still the same due to a lack of results. I'd be somewhat miffed.



Exactly what is happening, guys with older Phantoms that following the averages used to fair OK win some lose some against the Blaze & Laser, now isolated, the Blaze can still fair OK against a Laser but the hounding of the Phantom and targeting of the Laser as handicap event fodder in isolation now screws the status quo.

Our club leave it as supplied by the RYA, as it is the Merlin boys often work out the results, they're hardly going to handicap themselves off the winning streak of a lifetime, so maybe I do it, I'm hardly going to handicap them just for my own selfish benefit because that's what it would look like. Club politics amongst chums just won't stand it at small clubs, so we moan.

Edited by iGRF - 02 Sep 13 at 8:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 7:45pm
Nice to see Starcross doing a comprehensive job of adjusting. It's good to see others having a go too.

I guess my main reason for asking, apart from noseyness in wanting to see what boats had been adjusted, was to see if attitudes had changed.  A couple of years ago there used to be quite a divide between those that liked local adjustment and those that didn't, I was wondering if the divide had altered with the advent of the new returns system............Has the RYA publicity over the last  couple of years promoting the idea of local adjustment had an effect?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 8:05pm
I enter all the data in for Leigh and Lowton, which we've been doing for two years (ish)
I think it has definitely helped that it isn't people from the club amending the numbers but the website which has the backing from the RYA. Stamp of approval

Alex
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 10:19pm
HISC do.
Not sure how they are worked out though.

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